[Brian Considine]

We have found that locomotives vary - a lot - even "identical" ones.

If a loco operates as it should with the caps, then fine - leave them in place. If it does not & it is improved without them then leave them out. We have found the Lenz Silver & Gold do not like caps - they often "see" them as a motor short & just sit there flashing the lights ! There are far too many variables for hard & fast rules.

As Andrew says - "Any loco with capacitors fitted for EMC will only have been tested on DC." to which I agree - don't forget, as soon as you modify something (like hard wire a decoder) the CE complience is now effectivly "out of the window" anyway. Interference to radio/TV can be a problem but look at the other electrical "noise" around - mobile phones for one !

Now I'm not too familier with the insides of H & B loco's, but for example all Roco loco's I see with factory fitted decoders do not have caps, but they do have chokes between the decoder outputs & the motor - maybe there is a difference between H & B in this respect.

IMHO we are getting a little too concerned about CE/EMC here - as long as we are not causing a problem to other people why worry. How many people who seem to be concerned about CE/EMC have home made power supplies that would not comply with basic safety, let alone CE/EMC in a month of Sundays ! (Some of the things I see when at exhibitions make me glad I have always declined to carry out Portable Appliance Testing for clubs !). Having said that, to name but 2, I have seen some very well constructed panels (DWB's) & power supplies (Dougs).

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (Doug @ 26 Jul 2007, 01:12) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>In my experiments, I found that the nosiest source was the reversing unit. When a loco straddled the track between on phase and the other it created an almighty din on the tranny. I suppose the electronics of the device are working overtime to keep the system in phase.

You also get similar noises when pickups go from one power district to another.

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (Doug @ 28 Jul 2007, 19:24) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Has anyone ever experienced sufficient interference from a DCC powered layout to cause complaint from a neighbour or family member watching TV or listening to the radio?

Personally I have not - St.Laurent when assembled & running in the workshop is actually very close to a number of neighbours TV/FM ariels & we are actually in a very weak TV signal area. Bearing this in mind I have asked all the people within a 50m radius & none have any problems at all.
St.Laurent uses Fleischmann Twin Centres & decoders from Lenz & ESU. Locomotives all have the caps removed & are from most of the major european mainland manufactures (including some nearly 40 years old.)

I also run the LGB garden railway on DCC - no problems form that one either. This one uses Lenz LH100 & all Lenz decoders, again with no caps.

My own FM radio in the workshop runs off a 2' length of flex for it's ariel & also has no problems.

Very much a case of what works for you - stick to it.

Talking of the absense of Gary I find it a refreshing change to be able to discus things in a very civilised & non-confrontational manner !

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 5 Aug 2007, 12:26) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Compliant:
Most other brands don't bother submitting as the process is slow and they want to get things on the market as fast as possible, so after being sure they work perfectly with all other brands they simply start selling them.

Regards

Richard

Good post as usual Richard - Maybe the established brands (i.e those who know what they are doing) don't always submit decoders if "the process is slow" because,in these days of fast moving development by the time the Conformance Warrant is issued the decoder has been superceeded !

Consoles/Controls are another matter as they tend to have a longer production life.

Regarding the terminology part of the confusion may arise as the US & UK (plus of course other English language speaking countries) often use different terminology - maybe this is part of the confusion, & of course could be very useful for any "spin" ?

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (Doug @ 6 Aug 2007, 16:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>That's interesting. It doesn't say if they were involved with the electronics though. It looks like they designed the cases. I've sent them an email asking for clarification on a few points. Lets see if they reply.

To quote from their website ;

Here we teamed up with Hornby to design a ground breaking digital control product range known as DCC Systems.

Don't know what they actually mean by "ground breaking"............... or maybe they think DCC is new.

Bet you a fiver (donated to a charity of your choice) you don't get a reply (or if you do it will be full of spin.)

 

[Brian Considine]

Been away for the weekend with St.Laurent & am awaiting a knock on the door from the DTI as there are no capacitors in any locomotive ! Looks like any possibility to be invited to Warley is out the window now because we won't get past Gary's "capacitor inspection" at the door

.

I certainly agree with both DWB & Richard - two people (amoungst others) I well respect, especially as they certainly know what they are talking about.

Gary - I have 2 questions for you ;

1) What pub(s) do you frequent - so that I can avoid them when I next visit the Midlands.

2) What will your next "crusade" be - so that I can get "genned up" on the subject.

If you're stuck for question 2 here's a suggestion - "Portable Appliance Testing" for Model Railway Exhibitions.

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (Gary @ 20 Aug 2007, 10:00) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Gordon H in his analysis above claims that for technical reasons you are going to provide a lower level of EMC protection if you rely purely on a decoder. Unless of course he is wrong.

And that it is entirely wrong of 30+ members of the NMRA to agree that they do not instruct customers to remove capacitors when it is patently obvious that they do! Unless of course ZTC have missinformed the public.

Happy modelling
Gary

In theory, the cables/wires between the decoder & motor could act as an aerial, so could the rails themselves, the connecting cables from the controller the track, the track bus, the mains cable all in varying degrees.

You have to take into account possible litigation et all when companies advise in writing - it's one of the current games called "covering your back".