I think that there is a law about this in France. You're not allowed to commercially sell anything with a swastika.
Censorship of 1933-1945 models?
Today I picked up a Brawa E95 in a dark grey with the German eagle on the side. I noticed that the Reich's Eagle had a black dot below and was sure that it should be a Swastika. I had a look on wiki and found this page;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_eagle
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So it looks like Brawa are censoring their models by removing the Swastika. Is their some law about this in Germany perhaps? These models are meant to be historical models, why deface the livery of the day, its not as if these models will be misused?
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I had a Dinky Stuka as a child and I'm sure that had a Swastika on the tail.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_eagle
So it looks like Brawa are censoring their models by removing the Swastika. Is their some law about this in Germany perhaps? These models are meant to be historical models, why deface the livery of the day, its not as if these models will be misused?
I had a Dinky Stuka as a child and I'm sure that had a Swastika on the tail.
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I seem to remember reading that they are allowed in Germany as long as it's in a historical context, but that they are totally banned in France. Mind you, Revell and Airfix haven't included them since, oooh, as long as I can remember.
QUOTE (poliss @ 28 Sep 2008, 01:49) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I seem to remember reading that they are allowed in Germany as long as it's in a historical context, but that they are totally banned in France. Mind you, Revell and Airfix haven't included them since, oooh, as long as I can remember.
I'm sure the Me109 I bought as a child had Swastikas in the decals for placing on the tailplane.(that was 25-30years ago).
I'm sure the Me109 I bought as a child had Swastikas in the decals for placing on the tailplane.(that was 25-30years ago).
If I modelled that era,I would want a swastika. For nothing else but accuracy.
I do remember discussing this a year or so ago and the swastika is banned in Germany and does not appear on any models (although there is a Liliput {Austrian owned by Chinese company} BR05 which has it).
I model Epoch II and I can live without it.
Hows your E95 by the way? I thought about getting one of those.
I model Epoch II and I can live without it.
Hows your E95 by the way? I thought about getting one of those.
We also discussed it a bit on the Br42 'tarnfarbe' page a month or two ago....
http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index...?showtopic=5381
Cheers
Phil
http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index...?showtopic=5381
Cheers
Phil
QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 28 Sep 2008, 02:06) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I do remember discussing this a year or so ago and the swastika is ba(although there is a Liliput {Austrian owned by Chinese company} BR05 which has it).
My Liliput 05 (Austrian made one) has the swasrika's as well as the Olympic Rings on the tender.
My Liliput 05 (Austrian made one) has the swasrika's as well as the Olympic Rings on the tender.
QUOTE (Brian Considine @ 28 Sep 2008, 20:03) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>My Liliput 05 (Austrian made one) has the swasrika's as well as the Olympic Rings on the tender.
I am surprised to hear this, as Austria also bans the swastika. Just Google for Austria and swastika and you will see numerous newspaper articles which say that both Germany and Austria ban the swastika. Some of these articles include other countries, but I am not sure if a definitive list of countries exists.
I am surprised to hear this, as Austria also bans the swastika. Just Google for Austria and swastika and you will see numerous newspaper articles which say that both Germany and Austria ban the swastika. Some of these articles include other countries, but I am not sure if a definitive list of countries exists.
QUOTE (John @ 29 Sep 2008, 04:39) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I am surprised to hear this, as Austria also bans the swastika. Just Google for Austria and swastika and you will see numerous newspaper articles which say that both Germany and Austria ban the swastika. Some of these articles include other countries, but I am not sure if a definitive list of countries exists.
That's interesting. I did suspect this might have been the case. I wonder how this got under the radar? Could it have been an export only model?
That's interesting. I did suspect this might have been the case. I wonder how this got under the radar? Could it have been an export only model?
QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 28 Sep 2008, 03:06) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I do remember discussing this a year or so ago and the swastika is banned in Germany and does not appear on any models (although there is a Liliput {Austrian owned by Chinese company} BR05 which has it).
I model Epoch II and I can live without it.
Hows your E95 by the way? I thought about getting one of those.
Hi, its a nice model although strange looking. Its articulated and has two motors. At low speeds there is a strange sound which I think is a disparity in speed between the two motors causing one set of driving wheels to go faster than the other. The 'noise' I think is the traction tyres skidding. The model is highly detailed and even the connecting rods which are very fine work at the H end. I can take a few photos if you want.
I model Epoch II and I can live without it.
Hows your E95 by the way? I thought about getting one of those.
Hi, its a nice model although strange looking. Its articulated and has two motors. At low speeds there is a strange sound which I think is a disparity in speed between the two motors causing one set of driving wheels to go faster than the other. The 'noise' I think is the traction tyres skidding. The model is highly detailed and even the connecting rods which are very fine work at the H end. I can take a few photos if you want.
QUOTE (simonj @ 29 Sep 2008, 09:47) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi, its a nice model although strange looking. Its articulated and has two motors. At low speeds there is a strange sound which I think is a disparity in speed between the two motors causing one set of driving wheels to go faster than the other. The 'noise' I think is the traction tyres skidding. The model is highly detailed and even the connecting rods which are very fine work at the H end. I can take a few photos if you want.
Hi Simon, thanks for the offer. I wouldn't mind seeing some photos as it's still on my to buy list. The Brawa photo looks good but it would be nice to see it from another angle.
cheers
Neil
Hi Simon, thanks for the offer. I wouldn't mind seeing some photos as it's still on my to buy list. The Brawa photo looks good but it would be nice to see it from another angle.
cheers
Neil
It dark here and the light indoors is poor so I'll take a few photos tomorrow and put them up here.
I know what you mean about seeing 3rd party photos before deciding on a model, they can be very telling. What I've done in the past is searched ebay as some of the people on there take lots of shots of the models they are selling and they can make a good reference.
I know what you mean about seeing 3rd party photos before deciding on a model, they can be very telling. What I've done in the past is searched ebay as some of the people on there take lots of shots of the models they are selling and they can make a good reference.
QUOTE (simonj @ 29 Sep 2008, 10:24) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It dark here and the light indoors is poor so I'll take a few photos tomorrow and put them up here.
I know what you mean about seeing 3rd party photos before deciding on a model, they can be very telling. What I've done in the past is searched ebay as some of the people on there take lots of shots of the models they are selling and they can make a good reference.
Agreed. That's a good idea about Ebay.
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I know what you mean about seeing 3rd party photos before deciding on a model, they can be very telling. What I've done in the past is searched ebay as some of the people on there take lots of shots of the models they are selling and they can make a good reference.
Agreed. That's a good idea about Ebay.
The swastika is in fact banned in the European Union,including all models of WW2 subjects. Although we can all live without it, it is a ridiculous part of censorship. The Third Reich happened and to remove historical accuracy through political correctness is a shame. However we should all be grateful that the European union has not, so far, banned all models from the period 1933-1945.
The United Kingdom is in the Eurpoean Union. The swastika is not banned here. As far as I know the only country that has a total ban is France. I think it is allowed in Germany for historical purposes only and is banned only for political and propaganda purposes.
You have a point Clive about the issue of removing something that has historical importance. If it goes in France, out of textbooks and out of the public view, how will the kids of today learn what it meant when it was used by the Nazi party?
As some may know, it is actually a very old symbol used in Asia for thousands of years. The symbol can be found over the entrances of temples in India. Anti-clockwise (like the swastika) for feminine Gods and clockwise for masculine Gods. Some say that if the symbol used by the Nazis was reversed, it would have had more symbolic power.
A cathedral up the road from me in Amiens has swastika symbols in the black and white floor tiles. (see info here) Built in the 13th century - nothing sinister there.
As some may know, it is actually a very old symbol used in Asia for thousands of years. The symbol can be found over the entrances of temples in India. Anti-clockwise (like the swastika) for feminine Gods and clockwise for masculine Gods. Some say that if the symbol used by the Nazis was reversed, it would have had more symbolic power.
A cathedral up the road from me in Amiens has swastika symbols in the black and white floor tiles. (see info here) Built in the 13th century - nothing sinister there.
QUOTE (Doug @ 17 Oct 2008, 10:05) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You have a point Clive about the issue of removing something that has historical importance. If it goes in France, out of textbooks and out of the public view, how will the kids of today learn what it meant when it was used by the Nazi party?
As some may know, it is actually a very old symbol used in Asia for thousands of years. The symbol can be found over the entrances of temples in India. Anti-clockwise (like the swastika) for feminine Gods and clockwise for masculine Gods. Some say that if the symbol used by the Nazis was reversed, it would have had more symbolic power.
A cathedral up the road from me in Amiens has swastika symbols in the black and white floor tiles. (see info here) Built in the 13th century - nothing sinister there.
I actually saw in a book, a British Indian Air Force Spitfire with a swastika in the squadron insignia. Not just outside the cockpit as recorded kills.
As some may know, it is actually a very old symbol used in Asia for thousands of years. The symbol can be found over the entrances of temples in India. Anti-clockwise (like the swastika) for feminine Gods and clockwise for masculine Gods. Some say that if the symbol used by the Nazis was reversed, it would have had more symbolic power.
A cathedral up the road from me in Amiens has swastika symbols in the black and white floor tiles. (see info here) Built in the 13th century - nothing sinister there.
I actually saw in a book, a British Indian Air Force Spitfire with a swastika in the squadron insignia. Not just outside the cockpit as recorded kills.
QUOTE (poliss @ 16 Oct 2008, 21:12) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The United Kingdom is in the Eurpoean Union. The swastika is not banned here. As far as I know the only country that has a total ban is France. I think it is allowed in Germany for historical purposes only and is banned only for political and propaganda purposes.
This is, AFAIK the correct situation, although I'm not too certain about France (I thought that anything non-French was banned there TIC) - in fact, if I remember correctly the E19 in the Nurnberg Transport Museum has the eagle crest on the front complete with swastika - allowed as this is a historical locomotive.
This is, AFAIK the correct situation, although I'm not too certain about France (I thought that anything non-French was banned there TIC) - in fact, if I remember correctly the E19 in the Nurnberg Transport Museum has the eagle crest on the front complete with swastika - allowed as this is a historical locomotive.
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