[goedel]

QUOTE (Gary @ 21 May 2007, 12:14) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Would they be if they were produced halfway around the world?
And would you be infuenced if model packaging had a carbon footprint code with green being good and red being bad?
Models made in china would probably be red and in Europe green.
It's a bit like cars, if they are designed in Germany, the parts made in China and shipped to Eastern Europe for assembly before being sold in the UK, just where was the car 'made'? Assembled in Europe? Made in China? Designed in Europe?

Also perhaps the actual model is made in Europe so it has a small carbon footprint to the UK, but what if a single sub-component is made in China and so was shipped here at higher carbon cost? Also let us remember that items such as models will probably be sent in bulk by ship which is very kind on the enviroment in comparison to using trucks or cars or the worst possible case: air. I think it is easy to confuse reducing our personal carbon emissions by not flying on holiday and not driving a car and turning devices off standby with the negligible emissions of a small plastic and metal model! Cars and flying are what we should be worrying about, not whether our latest train has a non-zero wheelprint!

I for example would like to support our European neighbours who share our culture and values, but if the quality from China is high enough and I ignore human rights abuses and the price is right, I would consider buying something made there. I suppose this is because I am a non-German buying German, so it doesn't matter quite so much where the item is made, but if I were German I would obviously value the idea that I was supporting my brothers and sisters.

Goedel

 

[goedel]

QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 21 May 2007, 23:55) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>After all the high quality is why I took up Continental ... modelling in the first place.
Me too. It doesn't help the horror stories you hear on this very forum about decoder fitting even very recent Hornby releases (with their bits that fall off) and shows that the UK is still years behind Europe and many European models hardly cost more. You can buy a second hand Roco model from fifteen years ago off eBay with more detail and a better drive that the current stuff a lot of the never-had-it-so-good fruitcakes are waxing lyrical about...

There are model train companies like Roco and there are toy companies like Hornby.

Goedel

 

[goedel]

QUOTE (ozwarrior @ 22 May 2007, 02:12) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Perhaps true but Roco were recently bankrupt whereas Hornby are making millions!
Exactly! Model before profit is best for modellers... Those millions Hornby makes that you mention are hardly a good thing! Surely they just show how much Hornby are compromising on quality...and how many modellers are Hornby shareholders?!

QUOTE (ozwarrior @ 22 May 2007, 02:12) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Who would buy a merc or Beamer over a Lexus?

Everyone?!

Talking of cars, look at UK car manufacturers! Rover managed to go bankrupt and didn't even have a high quality product as an excuse like Roco!!

Goedel

 

[goedel]

QUOTE (Ravenser @ 22 May 2007, 13:29) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>as it seems to have headed into familiar territory of "put the boot into British modelling"
The point I was trying to make was not so much putting the boot in as saying that Hornby is compromising unnecessarily on quality to increase its profits which does not benefit modellers. It is important to remember that things will only improve is if we complain and demand better - we should not be sentimental about what Hornby is - it is just a train flogging business that will cut every corner it can get away with - the sharehorders demand it!

I think it is potentially dangerous to go around saying how much standards have improved without looking at the global context where the rest of the world has moved on with proper DCC and sound integration and non-falling-off-bits and better motors, greater detail etc. and so Hornby is actually treading water. We must not be complacent but demand more and better for the same money, otherwise newcomers will be less attracted to model railways and without new recruits the hobby will gradually decline in the UK. Given the profits and market share Hornby currently enjoys they're hardly being squeezed to strive towards greater things...but they should be!!

More vigorous and louder criticism (obviously of the constructive kind) is needed, instead of having a mindset accepting that a brand new model will be okay after a facelift and repaint and replaced decoder just because the manufacturer was lazy. Most unfortunate in this respect are the uncritical reviews freqen tly found in several popular railway magazines, who apart from wanting their free samples from the manufacturers, continue to willfully ignore stark errors and failings in the model for fear of putting the readers and potential buyers off. If only they stood up to the manufacturers and pointed out these mistakes and poor quality then they could influence the hobby for the good of the modellers...

Demand better!

Goedel

 

[goedel]

QUOTE (Ravenser @ 23 May 2007, 12:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>This has evidently confused you, geodel , which is understandable as you are unfamiliar with the ground. And you certainly aren't familiar with the territory you're discussing
But really as a Continental outline N gauge modeller, I'm not quite clear what you are doing here targetting British 4mm RTR and one of its manufacturers. Surely its none of your concern - they don't make N?
Again geodel - before you criticise the reviewing , have you seen the model?
I'm sorry to have upset you so much Ravenser. However you are very keen to judge me on where I'm from, and unnecessarily patronising. I have lived in the UK for the last 21 years and feel perfectly at home commenting on the ground here. The reason I model continental N is because I gave up on OO several years ago, and doesn't mean my interests are strictly confined to Euro N.

QUOTE (Ravenser @ 23 May 2007, 12:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>For the record I've never seen anyone trying a layout to run to a timetable at a public exhibition.
I have. That is why I mentioned it in another thread but I don't see how it relates to what was being discussed here.

QUOTE (Ravenser @ 23 May 2007, 12:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The flamethrower is not an instrument of persuasion.
I think you are the one trying to use it. Also I fail to see how constructive criticism of today's releases will lead back to Lima...that is pure scaremongering. If you have a personal issue with me then send a PM instead of befouling the forum.

I stand by everything I have said in earlier posts. I hope that we can agree to disagree.

Goedel

 

[goedel]

QUOTE (Robert Sands @ 23 Sep 2007, 22:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Interesting concept or are you quoting Maerklin's marketing philosophy of poor quality, inaccurate models, sky high prices and idiotic collectors just waiting to lap up every offering. Maybe you might start looking at your own country's product a liitle closer or is that hitting a little close to home, is it OK to mention Kleinbahn?
Hello Robert,

It is fine to mention Kleinbahn; they provide models for those on a tighter budget/ with less of an addiction (

), and don't pretend to do anything else.
The current Maerklin offerings are of the very highest standard, being externally identical to the Trix DC models that many admire greatly, silly AC mechanism with studs aside. I won't touch Maerklin because of this, and anyway N scale is DC all the way!

QUOTE But whatever you do, don't lecture the UK about politics, one of your fellow countryman has already tried that (and failed). This forum does not need a lesson and there really should be no place for such bile. I suggest that you take your loathing of the UK and stay in the land that you love so much.
I have been in the UK for 22 years and so know all about the politics. I think you have misunderstood me - I loathe what I perceive as an American influence on the social fabric of the UK, that is quite different to loathing the UK itself!! There are plenty of excellent things here such as the unspoiled parts of the countryside and the old traditions and values of the British people, what makes me sad is the damage to the social fabric that has occurred over time - negative development after negative development is depressing and makes me think the country is progressing the wrong way.

Correct me if I'm wrong but are house prices not ridiculous here? Is violent and loutish behaviour not on the rise? Has the Labour government not borrowed lots of money? Has it not spent huge amounts on the NHS but still nurses trained here can't get jobs, wards are being closed and there is a postcode lottery for medicine? Are the police not a joke concept who spend all their time filling in forms? Are prisons not overcrowded and criminals being released early from the huge prison population, symptomatic of a large barbarian underclass?

I read the newspapers, I see the people on the streets, I walk past the vandalised bus stops and the feral children and yobs drinking at midday and leering at terrified pensioners on the cloned-shop highstreets. Are you telling me this isn't the dark side of the UK and that it isn't a real problem? I love the light side; the countryside, the little villages, the great Universities and the vitality of the cities like Birmingham and that is the part to which you refer, I merely worry about the spread of the darkness...

...oh and Gary annoys me a great deal. I do not pretend, and he of course now ignores my replies...

Goedel

 

[goedel]

ME 26-06, I for one would really like to read your review of the S2/6, and I think there are many others who will be disappointed if you were discouraged by small minded people banging the oh-so-very-done-and-dusted WW2 drum.

Oh and Robert, where has my Waldorf salad got to please?

Goedel von Brum

 

[goedel]

QUOTE (simonj @ 24 Sep 2007, 22:23) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Back to the original thread subject, are you sure Marklin/Trix are 100% made in Germany? I just bought a Minitrix wagon set and the cost of each unit was £14. The chassis are die cast metal and even the containers are weighted. They are superior to the Fleischmann equivalents at twice the cost. It makes me wonder where these are actually made as nowhere on the packaging is a definitive "Made in Germany" stamped.
I see what you mean, I have just looked at the wagons (which say only Minitrix) and their individual boxes which mention only the address of Trix of Nuernberg...however these are models from the Alpine Transit set (15645) and I have seen pictures of the box for the whole set of 20 different wagons - it is quite possible it says on this box where the items are made. It is a good thing that some shops split the set up because £200 (i.e. only £10 per wagon) is still a lot of money in total if you are like me, perhaps unlike the collector, only interested in the wagons of certain countries.

Although I don't care so much where they were made because the quality is most excellent!! Obviously in Nuernberg, under the direct supervision of the Directors!

This competition is good for us, now Fleischmann must reduce its prices or produce further novelties! (Which it has done with some new log carrying Eaos etc. wagons in liveries for many European railways (DB epoch III,IV & V, DR, SNCB and ÖBB:

Although the prices remain

! At least it is so from Morris Models, who had the Minitrix ones at a delicious £13.50). And Roco, Roco, always the naughty child of N scale, must of course stop making new releases in secret, upgrade to close-coupling on wagons to match the coaches, and not just release repaints of very good but slowly aging models...

Either way the modellers should win because the market is large, there are plenty of unmodelled prototypes and continuing miniaturisation makes full DCC with Sound no problem for 1:160...and even 1:220 one day!! Maerklin quality in Z scale is a whole new thread...but I don't know much about it!

Goedel

 

[goedel]

QUOTE (Thomas @ 25 Sep 2007, 08:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>About politics: what Goedel described is the picture I have from the UK. I am not a resident in the UK. But what I get from casual talk in forums (railway and photographic ones) and being told from my british born and raised friends the picture Goedel has painted seem to show some truth. For my his comments show that he has symphaty for the UK and he cares for the country he has chosen to life in. So I cannot understand why he is bashed for what he says. Deterioring values is problem common to the whole of Europe. There are some things special about the UK, its history, its traditions, its people some folk from the continent (like me) really like. So please see our comments as a commitment of sympathy not as loathing.
You are completely right Thomas, that is a much better way of putting it I think, and should not be seen as patronising because deteriorating values are indeed a problem all over the world now...

QUOTE (Thomas @ 25 Sep 2007, 08:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>After 10 years modelling British railways I recently went back to continental matters.
I will start a new thread about me differences I found.....
I'm looking forward to your thread, it is an interesting perspective to have, going from continental to British and back again. I polish my spectacles!

Goedel

 

[goedel]

QUOTE (simonj @ 25 Sep 2007, 19:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>As for where we they are made? Maybe this model is a clue???

Perhaps! I might send Trix an email, but to ask about a specific set they may not answer quickly if they must check production schedules etc. However there is no reason why they could not be made in Germany / Eastern Europe at a semi-automated high-tech factory because there are not too many detail parts to fit. The fact that the set consits of only five or six different mouldings would help here too. This is also so why they could be made anywhere...

This is perhaps something people worry about more when they have problems with a model in some respect - when one is replete with excellent food one does not think about who is working in the kitchen...however if the meat is not cooked properly and the carrots are square, immediately you think do they employ a clown at the back?

A very full Goedel