[ME 26-06]

QUOTE (goedel @ 21 May 2007, 23:32) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>... if I were German I would obviously value the idea that I was supporting my brothers and sisters.

Goedel

Note that my latest purchase is - again - made by Gützold. A small family business located in the Ore Mountains in Saxony/Germany (where toys are made since around the year 1600). They make their trains in their Saxonian factory, not in China.

Buying Chinese goods kills jobs here. Although I admit to having a few engines made in China, I am not willing to buy any more models made in the Far East, no matter how "good" they are.

 

[ME 26-06]

QUOTE (ozwarrior @ 22 May 2007, 03:12) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Perhaps true but Roco were recently bankrupt whereas Hornby are making millions!

Question is, why did Roco go bankrupt. It was because their CEO at the time, Mr Maegdefrau, wanted Roco to play in one league with Märklin, sales-wise, yet turn out better, more detailed models that are very close to brass engines. The BBÖ class 310, the DB cllass 03.10, the "Bundesheer" (Austrian Army) Taurus are good examples of this. However, Roco relied strongly on the German market, which was in an economic downturn at the time, and only few modellers bought the engine. Being top brass, Mr Maegdefrau then did about the stupidest thing a CEO can possibly do - he cut down on quality control, and on R+D (and moved to a newly-built facility in Rif/Austria, which cost a couple of million Euros as well). The lack of quality made continental modellers become rather wary of the brand, until Roco´s bank stopped the entire operation and took over under the new name, Modelleisenbahn GmbH, and tragiccally had to fight Mr Maegdefrau in court because he (still) claims to have done nothing wrong. Roco models, as far as I´ve heard from folks who have bben there, are now produced in Slovenia, and the partly assembled parts are then sent across the border to Austria on a conveyor belt for final assembly. Note that both countries are EU members.

I can see no comparison at all to Hornby here, where good people in Margate/UK had been laid off, and the Hornby moulds were sent to China, where they now produce the models. As far as Hornby is concerned, yes, I am a bit critical of them as imho the Hornby-Rivarossi, H.-Lima, H.-Jouef and H.-Arnold quality has deteriorated in a way that can only be called dramatic, compared to the original brands that produced in Italy, France, and Germany.

QUOTE (ozwarrior @ 22 May 2007, 03:12) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think on the Continent in general people buy more for nationalistic reasons rather than value for money.

Buddy, you know zilch about "the Continent". If that were true, I´d personally be modelling Prussia rather than a Saxonian/Bavarian border station around 1913. Me, I wouldn´t be riding around in a Renault car, and dreaming of my next car being an Alfa Romeo

(don´t tell my gf). I guess we do want the jobs and production lines to remain in Europe, by buying European, but nationalism? No.

QUOTE (ozwarrior @ 22 May 2007, 03:12) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Take cars for example: What percentage of the French market is French made? Doesn't make them the best cars though!

My Clio is just fine. To quench your rant: how many continental European countries even MAKE cars? Let´s see (major brands only): Spain: VW/SEAT. Czech Rep.:VW/Skoda. Sweden: Saab/Volvo. Netherlands: (few) Volvos (former DAF plant). Italy: Fiat, Alfa Romeo. France: Renault, Peugeot, Citroen. Germany: Ford, VW, Mercedes, BMW, Opel, Audi. Austria, Belgium, Portugal, Denmark, Greece - zilch. So, chances are that ANYWHERE on the continent you will see German, French or Italian cars, rather than the rest. No nationalism, pure probability calculations. I´ve been to france several times, and I´m astonished how popular the VW Golf and the Fiat Punto are there. Besides, you are aware of Renault plants in Turkey, where they make the Megane convertible and station wagon, for example? However, I can get Renault service in any small french town in the Alps, where no other brand is available, so that´d be my first choice if I lived there. On the other hand, I can get VW service on any minute Baltic island in Germany, so go figure.

QUOTE (ozwarrior @ 22 May 2007, 03:12) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Who would buy a merc or Beamer over a Lexus? They do in Europe and not because they are better!

Oh, but they ARE better. In terms of performance, total cost of operation, reliability (if a BMW breaks down, you can call BMW and have your car towed to the next town with a BMW dealer for repair, if a Lexus breaks down, you have to go look for a Toyota dealer, and are lucky if his mechanics have even seen a Lexus before - there´s way more BMW dealers than there are Lexus joints), the design is original and not the copycat-ersatz-3-class-saloon Lexus offers, and resale value of a Benz or a BMW is way (!!!) higher than that of a Lexus. And I haven´t even touched the subject of the nimbus surrounding the three brands.

 

[ME 26-06]

QUOTE (Gary @ 22 May 2007, 10:39) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>...it is difficult to see how European modellers will ever benefit from the incredible value offered to modellers in the UK and America.

Gary,

I´ve seen this value when a friend needed a spare part for his FS E-402 engine, and couldn´t get it. He had to return the engine to my dealer, got a refund, but was left with no engine. When I buy German, or Austrian, I can call the manufacturer and try to get the spare - chances are 100% at Gützold or Piko-Standard (NOT Hobby, these are made in China!), around 85% at Roco or Fleischmann, and some 75% at Trix. If I have trouble with a digital decoder, I cann call the manufaturer for help. Albeit the engine itself is made in China, I could call Brawa about which brake hoses to mount on my Bavarian G4/5H; as R+D was done in Germany, I got connected to an R+D person responsible for this engine who answered my question and told me stuff about the real Westinghouse (earlier) and Knorr (later) brakes that I didn´t yet know .

To me, value is not just the price. It is also the service that surrounds the product, the feeling of being on the safe side if something breaks or goes wrong. The possibility of being able to ask for advice. And knowing that my Piko, or Gützold engines are a well thought out product, wwhere they thought about fitting digital decoders right from the start, where they don´t make me disassemble the entire engine to change a light bulb because they nticipated that right from the start. Chinese-developed products, like those from Bachmann-Liliput, don´t offer that, which is why I´ll stay clear of their engines. Brawa, as I´ve learned, is different as they develop their engines in Germany and have them assembled in China - you can see the difference.

 

[ME 26-06]

QUOTE (Ravenser @ 22 May 2007, 14:29) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>...As far as Hornby and the Rivarossi group are concerned , I suspect ME20-06 and I are seeing completely different stories. Hornby did not buy Rivarossi- they bought Rivarossi's pile of tooling, which they have only just got back into production. They will not have any stocks of spares for the HO/N products , especially where production of an item has only just started, and they probably don't have a properly established dealer network on the Continent yet. The don't actually have any obligations to support owners of Rivarossi locos bought in the old days - they bought the tools not Rivarossi and its liabilities
...

Hi Ravenser,

I think I´ve been misunderstood - Rivarossi et al went broke, lingered for some time, and their moulds (and distribution channels?) were bought by Hornby, moulds sent to China, and some (not all!) models are being made today in China. Of course, they have no obligation towards the customers of "old" Rivarossi.

However, my friend´s engine was made by "new" Hornbyrossi, and if they don´t stock spares for their modlels that are made in China, that fact to me casts a shadow on the "new" Hornby (Continental) products. This having been said, I´m still looking for an "old" Rivarossi Bavarian Gt 2x4/4 engine...

Please do understand that I have rather limited knowledge of British outline modelling, so my remarks are solely aimed at Hornby´s continental products, plus DCC fitting problems etc. which I read about on this fprum. In no way did I want to express that continental modelling is "better" than British outline; as far as I´m concerned, there is no "better", only "suits me more" opposed to "suits me less". I had and have no intention whatsoever in badmouthing British outline models, or their makers, let alone those modellers who buy them.

One word about Heljan: when you look at their 1/87th scale engines and cars, these are much priceyer than the 00 engines they make. However, my DSB MY engine is still "Made in Denmark".

Last remark about Roco, their models were great, however, they were released when Germany´s economy was ailing, and consumers were very unhappy to spend their money, so Roco got whacked by conditions they could not influence, and they were highly dependent on the German market. You may notice that today, as this episode is (hopefully) over, the more detailled, priceyer engines are again in high demand.

 

[ME 26-06]

QUOTE (Dennis David @ 22 May 2007, 15:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I am though interested in seeing if I can lay my hands on a Gutzold locomotive when I stop of in Germany in September.

Where exactly are you going? And what model(s) would you be interested in?

Some have been reviewed on www.miba.de, click "Teststrecke".

 

[ME 26-06]

Märklins main problem was that a number of owners wanted to live la vida loco off the dwindling Märklin profits.

The "sponsored liveries" were at the time highly sought-after collectors´ items. Keep in mind that these liveries weren´t that expensive, since the 1:1 engines weren´t painted, but rather foils were applied to their side walls. Märklin paid the same amount for their advertising as did other companies that did the same, like AGFA, Western Union, Kambly cookies, Swiss Postal Service etc. etc.

Now, if others can hijack this tread, so can I

:

On an unconnected side note, does anybody remember Märklin´s "Alpha" train line? ( Alpha engines ) And, back to the ´70s, when the Les Humphries Singers ruled (my parents place back then, anyway) - Märklin Sprint slot car racing? Sprint slotcars Or, the vintage Märklin metal construction kits? Märklin Metall ?

The Märklin Minex narrow gauge railroad, 1/45th scale, ran on Märklin HO track (1970 - 1972)? Or, the simplified Märklin Primex models?

Just reminiscing...

 

[ME 26-06]

QUOTE (Robert Sands @ 23 Sep 2007, 23:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Interesting concept or are you quoting Maerklin's marketing philosophy of poor quality, inaccurate models, sky high prices and idiotic collectors just waiting to lap up every offering...I find your tone and comments to be most offensive and an insult to this forum.

Errrrm.... the pot calling the kettle black?

Judging from your posts, you don´t like Germany, Austria, Märklin - which may be fine for you. However, do you find it appropriate to insult both goedel (whom I respect very much by the way), Märklin and their clientéle in your post, thus displaying an immature xenophobia that I for one do not visit MRF for?

Oh yeah, and WW2 ended in 1945. There´s no need for Hitler references outside continental Ep.II threads imho.

 

[ME 26-06]

Post deleted by the bloody German who wrote it in the first place.

I gather I no longer need to bother writing a review about my S2/6?

 

[ME 26-06]

QUOTE (goedel @ 24 Sep 2007, 21:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>ME 26-06, I for one would really like to read your review of the S2/6, and I think there are many others who will be disappointed if you were discouraged by small minded people banging the oh-so-very-done-and-dusted WW2 drum.

I´ll continue to write it; I was on sick leave for 3/4 of a year after I broke my spine in a car accident (alcohol was involved; I was sober; the courts have found I was in no way to blame that the accident happened - still, I´m a happy man because a very able surgeon spared me from spending the rest of my life in a wheelchair) and have returned to beancounting last week, so I have a bit less time than I had before.

I spent part of my childhood and youth in the US; I know what it feels like to be put down for something I was in no way able to influence - my heritage. Still, being from Schleswig-Holstein, it´s hard to shut me up, even for other Germans (ask a certain red-haired gal who lives with me). We have a reputation for being beyond stubborn up north. There may be some truth to that... go ahead, ask her!

 

[ME 26-06]

QUOTE (Thomas @ 25 Sep 2007, 09:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>... My granddad always got outraged when because of his Austrian heritage was called Nazi. He took active opposition against this regime. People in knowledge will know that this meant that he not only risked his life, he put the whole family in mortal danger...

My family is jewish, and our heritage and nationality is German.

Looking back, throughout my life I get (and got) way more insults flung my way from Brits and Americans who called me a nazi than from Germans who insulted me for my cultural background (very chosen few, actually).

Makes me wonder...