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Surely both Maerklin and Roco have already outsourced to China, so what is the big deal?
Chinese Marklin
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QUOTE (Robert Sands @ 23 Sep 2007, 17:55) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Surely both Maerklin and Roco have already outsourced to China, so what is the big deal?
None, as far as quality control is concerned (we are not seeing any) - personally I would still be prepared to pay a little more for all my goods to be manufactured closer to home. What will the UK do for money to purchase the goods manufactured in China when all the jobs have gone there. We cannot exist on tourism or invisible earnings.
None, as far as quality control is concerned (we are not seeing any) - personally I would still be prepared to pay a little more for all my goods to be manufactured closer to home. What will the UK do for money to purchase the goods manufactured in China when all the jobs have gone there. We cannot exist on tourism or invisible earnings.
Just to remind folk that Britain is now manufacturing more cars than it has done for many years.
Given that Britain is considered by its politicians to be a low cost highly efficient modern economy and a fantastic European example of the American economic model why don't Marklin and other German manufacturers shift their production to Britain?
Marklin with "Made in Britain" stamped on the bottom would surely go down better with the Germans than "Made in China"?
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And as Marklin probably already employ a lot of eastern European labour in its factories there would be no change there then!
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And with the Marklin offices of the owners being based in Britain it all makes perfect sense as the owners can keep their finger on the pulse in the style of Roman Abramovich much better than they are able to at the moment! They could install a new Director of Model Making.
Maybe this is why the EEC want to do away with any markings indicating product national identity with all products having a "Made in the EEC" on the bottom?
Because what with BMW's most successful model being "Made in Britain" it would make it far easier for Marklin to do precisely the same as BMW!
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Happy modelling
Gary
Given that Britain is considered by its politicians to be a low cost highly efficient modern economy and a fantastic European example of the American economic model why don't Marklin and other German manufacturers shift their production to Britain?
Marklin with "Made in Britain" stamped on the bottom would surely go down better with the Germans than "Made in China"?
And as Marklin probably already employ a lot of eastern European labour in its factories there would be no change there then!
And with the Marklin offices of the owners being based in Britain it all makes perfect sense as the owners can keep their finger on the pulse in the style of Roman Abramovich much better than they are able to at the moment! They could install a new Director of Model Making.
Maybe this is why the EEC want to do away with any markings indicating product national identity with all products having a "Made in the EEC" on the bottom?
Because what with BMW's most successful model being "Made in Britain" it would make it far easier for Marklin to do precisely the same as BMW!
Happy modelling
Gary
QUOTE (Robert Sands @ 23 Sep 2007, 22:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Interesting concept or are you quoting Maerklin's marketing philosophy of poor quality, inaccurate models, sky high prices and idiotic collectors just waiting to lap up every offering. Maybe you might start looking at your own country's product a liitle closer or is that hitting a little close to home, is it OK to mention Kleinbahn?
Hello Robert,
It is fine to mention Kleinbahn; they provide models for those on a tighter budget/ with less of an addiction (
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), and don't pretend to do anything else.
The current Maerklin offerings are of the very highest standard, being externally identical to the Trix DC models that many admire greatly, silly AC mechanism with studs aside. I won't touch Maerklin because of this, and anyway N scale is DC all the way!
QUOTE But whatever you do, don't lecture the UK about politics, one of your fellow countryman has already tried that (and failed). This forum does not need a lesson and there really should be no place for such bile. I suggest that you take your loathing of the UK and stay in the land that you love so much.
I have been in the UK for 22 years and so know all about the politics. I think you have misunderstood me - I loathe what I perceive as an American influence on the social fabric of the UK, that is quite different to loathing the UK itself!! There are plenty of excellent things here such as the unspoiled parts of the countryside and the old traditions and values of the British people, what makes me sad is the damage to the social fabric that has occurred over time - negative development after negative development is depressing and makes me think the country is progressing the wrong way.
Correct me if I'm wrong but are house prices not ridiculous here? Is violent and loutish behaviour not on the rise? Has the Labour government not borrowed lots of money? Has it not spent huge amounts on the NHS but still nurses trained here can't get jobs, wards are being closed and there is a postcode lottery for medicine? Are the police not a joke concept who spend all their time filling in forms? Are prisons not overcrowded and criminals being released early from the huge prison population, symptomatic of a large barbarian underclass?
I read the newspapers, I see the people on the streets, I walk past the vandalised bus stops and the feral children and yobs drinking at midday and leering at terrified pensioners on the cloned-shop highstreets. Are you telling me this isn't the dark side of the UK and that it isn't a real problem? I love the light side; the countryside, the little villages, the great Universities and the vitality of the cities like Birmingham and that is the part to which you refer, I merely worry about the spread of the darkness...
...oh and Gary annoys me a great deal. I do not pretend, and he of course now ignores my replies...
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Goedel
Hello Robert,
It is fine to mention Kleinbahn; they provide models for those on a tighter budget/ with less of an addiction (
The current Maerklin offerings are of the very highest standard, being externally identical to the Trix DC models that many admire greatly, silly AC mechanism with studs aside. I won't touch Maerklin because of this, and anyway N scale is DC all the way!
QUOTE But whatever you do, don't lecture the UK about politics, one of your fellow countryman has already tried that (and failed). This forum does not need a lesson and there really should be no place for such bile. I suggest that you take your loathing of the UK and stay in the land that you love so much.
I have been in the UK for 22 years and so know all about the politics. I think you have misunderstood me - I loathe what I perceive as an American influence on the social fabric of the UK, that is quite different to loathing the UK itself!! There are plenty of excellent things here such as the unspoiled parts of the countryside and the old traditions and values of the British people, what makes me sad is the damage to the social fabric that has occurred over time - negative development after negative development is depressing and makes me think the country is progressing the wrong way.
Correct me if I'm wrong but are house prices not ridiculous here? Is violent and loutish behaviour not on the rise? Has the Labour government not borrowed lots of money? Has it not spent huge amounts on the NHS but still nurses trained here can't get jobs, wards are being closed and there is a postcode lottery for medicine? Are the police not a joke concept who spend all their time filling in forms? Are prisons not overcrowded and criminals being released early from the huge prison population, symptomatic of a large barbarian underclass?
I read the newspapers, I see the people on the streets, I walk past the vandalised bus stops and the feral children and yobs drinking at midday and leering at terrified pensioners on the cloned-shop highstreets. Are you telling me this isn't the dark side of the UK and that it isn't a real problem? I love the light side; the countryside, the little villages, the great Universities and the vitality of the cities like Birmingham and that is the part to which you refer, I merely worry about the spread of the darkness...
...oh and Gary annoys me a great deal. I do not pretend, and he of course now ignores my replies...
Goedel
QUOTE (Robert Sands @ 23 Sep 2007, 23:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Interesting concept or are you quoting Maerklin's marketing philosophy of poor quality, inaccurate models, sky high prices and idiotic collectors just waiting to lap up every offering...I find your tone and comments to be most offensive and an insult to this forum.
Errrrm.... the pot calling the kettle black?
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Judging from your posts, you don´t like Germany, Austria, Märklin - which may be fine for you. However, do you find it appropriate to insult both goedel (whom I respect very much by the way), Märklin and their clientéle in your post, thus displaying an immature xenophobia that I for one do not visit MRF for?
Oh yeah, and WW2 ended in 1945. There´s no need for Hitler references outside continental Ep.II threads imho.
Errrrm.... the pot calling the kettle black?
Judging from your posts, you don´t like Germany, Austria, Märklin - which may be fine for you. However, do you find it appropriate to insult both goedel (whom I respect very much by the way), Märklin and their clientéle in your post, thus displaying an immature xenophobia that I for one do not visit MRF for?
Oh yeah, and WW2 ended in 1945. There´s no need for Hitler references outside continental Ep.II threads imho.
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QUOTE (ME 26-06 @ 24 Sep 2007, 08:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Judging from your posts, you don´t like Germany, Austria, Märklin - which may be fine for you. However, do you find it appropriate to insult both goedel (whom I respect very much by the way), Märklin and their clientéle in your post, thus displaying an immature xenophobia that I for one do not visit MRF for?
Oh yeah, and WW2 ended in 1945. There´s no need for Hitler references outside continental Ep.II threads imho.
To be honest even in regard to Epoch II he had very little to day with Railways so he does not merit a mention. Just for the record I disagree with the comments about Maerklin and find their Trix range some of the best product available for the price.
Oh yeah, and WW2 ended in 1945. There´s no need for Hitler references outside continental Ep.II threads imho.
To be honest even in regard to Epoch II he had very little to day with Railways so he does not merit a mention. Just for the record I disagree with the comments about Maerklin and find their Trix range some of the best product available for the price.
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Hi
Wow... Tennis with hand grenades
. I don't shy from hard discussion but find myself on both sides at once with this one, agreeing in part with most of the posts, and equally, disagreeing with sections of many of them too.
So... I'm not going to comment except to say..
(1) Gary, you are a consummate fisherman. Fly fishing is more refined than trolling however..... Worth trying occasionally perhaps?
Tilting at windmills is simply silly - Helps nobody and is potentially injurious to lance, horse and rider. The windmill doesn't care much, but the Millers do get annoyed at all the banging going on .
(2) Its nice in a way to see such passion from all sides - this really is an all consuming hobby, its such ashame that it always becomes us vs them though, rather than an extolling of comparative virtues. Makes a change from the (to me) tedium of trainset level discussion though.
(3) Modellers are divided by a common interest:
Some are brand loyal or specific, some prototype focussed, some fidelity consciuos... Some are even nationalistic, and then there is scale choice.... None should judge the other harshly, its just a different set of symptoms of the same basic addiction. We all have it.
(4) I think all brands have good points, and all have weaknesses, periods where they lose their way and some take directions I might never take or approve of. I have choice though, and thats what matters.
In the end its their business plan that will keep them with us, so as long as they keep focussed in their respective directions, we'll all still have choice in trains to play with for a oong time to come.
Richard
Wow... Tennis with hand grenades
. I don't shy from hard discussion but find myself on both sides at once with this one, agreeing in part with most of the posts, and equally, disagreeing with sections of many of them too.So... I'm not going to comment except to say..
(1) Gary, you are a consummate fisherman. Fly fishing is more refined than trolling however..... Worth trying occasionally perhaps?
Tilting at windmills is simply silly - Helps nobody and is potentially injurious to lance, horse and rider. The windmill doesn't care much, but the Millers do get annoyed at all the banging going on
.(2) Its nice in a way to see such passion from all sides - this really is an all consuming hobby, its such ashame that it always becomes us vs them though, rather than an extolling of comparative virtues. Makes a change from the (to me) tedium of trainset level discussion though.
(3) Modellers are divided by a common interest:
Some are brand loyal or specific, some prototype focussed, some fidelity consciuos... Some are even nationalistic, and then there is scale choice.... None should judge the other harshly, its just a different set of symptoms of the same basic addiction. We all have it.
(4) I think all brands have good points, and all have weaknesses, periods where they lose their way and some take directions I might never take or approve of. I have choice though, and thats what matters.
In the end its their business plan that will keep them with us, so as long as they keep focussed in their respective directions, we'll all still have choice in trains to play with for a oong time to come.
Richard
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Please see next post !
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QUOTE (goedel @ 23 Sep 2007, 23:02) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I loathe what I perceive as an American influence on the social fabric of the UK,
I certainly agree there - I call it "Creeping Americanism" - its the little things such as US spelling & terminology in instruction books that p*** me off.
I certainly agree there - I call it "Creeping Americanism" - its the little things such as US spelling & terminology in instruction books that p*** me off.
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dbclass50' said.... ""I certainly agree there - I call it "Creeping Americanism" - its the little things such as US spelling & terminology in instruction books that p*** me off.""
***You've got my vote on that - it's the world over :-( ....and the world over, sadly, its largely resented.
Overall, however - this is way, way off topic (but on theme for the evolved thread I suppose) - I just want to play trains in my own way and I'll never call a brake van a cabosse, nor a brake composite a combine, no matter how many fingernails you pull out!
Richard
***You've got my vote on that - it's the world over :-( ....and the world over, sadly, its largely resented.
Overall, however - this is way, way off topic (but on theme for the evolved thread I suppose) - I just want to play trains in my own way
and I'll never call a brake van a cabosse, nor a brake composite a combine, no matter how many fingernails you pull out!Richard
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If the Americans don't like English as it should be then they are free to come up with their own language & stop trying to change ours (they could always use American Indian - after all they are the original Americans), but then maybe the "English" ought to be speaking Welsh as the English are really Anglo-Saxons.....
Born in Bristol, England I regard myself proudly as English, even though I have German (shock horror) & Greek back in my family tree - good heavens - does that mean I'm a "Jonny Foreigner" that needs to be taught a lesson - send in a gunboat (if we have any left - maybe we could ask the Yanks if we could borrow one).
Maybe we need a flame pit !
Born in Bristol, England I regard myself proudly as English, even though I have German (shock horror) & Greek back in my family tree - good heavens - does that mean I'm a "Jonny Foreigner" that needs to be taught a lesson - send in a gunboat (if we have any left - maybe we could ask the Yanks if we could borrow one).
Maybe we need a flame pit !
I am very confident that there are parts of every European country that visitors "loathe and dread" going to. What I would say is if Britain is such an aweful place why do we attract so many from Eastern Europe? If parts of Europe are so wonderful surely the Eastern europeans would go there instead?
Or is it only the Brits who actually implement the EEC constitution with every other country in Europe giving it the two fingered salute?
What this has to do with railway modelling I don't know.
My suggestion that Marklin could move their production to the UK to cut costs does not seem to have gone down very well in some quarters.
My original response earlier was broadly in reply to another member who seemed concerned that Britain was going to loose all its manufcaturing base. This is unlikely for reasons stated.
Happy modelling
Gary
Or is it only the Brits who actually implement the EEC constitution with every other country in Europe giving it the two fingered salute?
What this has to do with railway modelling I don't know.
My suggestion that Marklin could move their production to the UK to cut costs does not seem to have gone down very well in some quarters.
My original response earlier was broadly in reply to another member who seemed concerned that Britain was going to loose all its manufcaturing base. This is unlikely for reasons stated.
Happy modelling
Gary
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Robert,
I did not accuse you of flaming - I merely suggested that we need a flame pit.
If you look through a lot of my previous posts you will see that I generalise a lot - if I were to accuse anyone of anything I would name them.
Whilst I actually like the American people I still object to "Creeping Americanism" as well as "Creeping Euroism" & the constant stripping of our identity & heritage.
Many of my posts generalise so maybe you have not really understood my manner. I've been here a while now, "crossed swords" with a few, but I can still exchange adult communication with them. Often, my comments are "tongue in cheek" & with a fairly large chunk of humour.
This afternoon I am going out to drive by German Van (running on French tyres), turn on the far-eastern made CD player (Kenwood), make a few phone calls on my German made mobile (powered by a battery sourced from Japan & finished in China), eat a salad roll with food from around the world & probably wear my Koean made Reeboks. What's this got to do with this thread - nothing I just thought I'd type it out to show that I'm not a complete xenophobic (& to think that I though that was someone who played a wind instrument !).
I did not accuse you of flaming - I merely suggested that we need a flame pit.
If you look through a lot of my previous posts you will see that I generalise a lot - if I were to accuse anyone of anything I would name them.
Whilst I actually like the American people I still object to "Creeping Americanism" as well as "Creeping Euroism" & the constant stripping of our identity & heritage.
Many of my posts generalise so maybe you have not really understood my manner. I've been here a while now, "crossed swords" with a few, but I can still exchange adult communication with them. Often, my comments are "tongue in cheek" & with a fairly large chunk of humour.
This afternoon I am going out to drive by German Van (running on French tyres), turn on the far-eastern made CD player (Kenwood), make a few phone calls on my German made mobile (powered by a battery sourced from Japan & finished in China), eat a salad roll with food from around the world & probably wear my Koean made Reeboks. What's this got to do with this thread - nothing I just thought I'd type it out to show that I'm not a complete xenophobic (& to think that I though that was someone who played a wind instrument !).
QUOTE (dbclass50 @ 24 Sep 2007, 11:05) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>So, by trying to keep our ENGLISH spelling & phases I should be ashamed of my self !
Born in Bristol, England I regard myself proudly as English, even though I have German (shock horror) & Greek back in my family tree
I've got Danish somewhere back in the dim and distant - perhaps I should only buy Heljan products!!
QUOTE (Robert Sands @ 24 Sep 2007, 11:54) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It is about time somewhat stood up for the UK.
I will stand up for the UK and frequently state I am proud to be English first British second and European third. However when you get people who are scarede to leave home because of ill disciplined louts then I actually feel ashamed. I won't say more on this except why all the graffiti.
QUOTE (Gary @ 24 Sep 2007, 12:16) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Or is it only the Brits who actually implement the EEC constitution with every other country in Europe giving it the two fingered salute?
Deep breath..... Gary I completelt agree with you.
Regards
Born in Bristol, England I regard myself proudly as English, even though I have German (shock horror) & Greek back in my family tree
I've got Danish somewhere back in the dim and distant - perhaps I should only buy Heljan products!!
QUOTE (Robert Sands @ 24 Sep 2007, 11:54) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It is about time somewhat stood up for the UK.
I will stand up for the UK and frequently state I am proud to be English first British second and European third. However when you get people who are scarede to leave home because of ill disciplined louts then I actually feel ashamed. I won't say more on this except why all the graffiti.
QUOTE (Gary @ 24 Sep 2007, 12:16) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Or is it only the Brits who actually implement the EEC constitution with every other country in Europe giving it the two fingered salute?
Deep breath..... Gary I completelt agree with you.
Regards
Post deleted by the bloody German who wrote it in the first place.
I gather I no longer need to bother writing a review about my S2/6?
I gather I no longer need to bother writing a review about my S2/6?
ME 26-06, I for one would really like to read your review of the S2/6, and I think there are many others who will be disappointed if you were discouraged by small minded people banging the oh-so-very-done-and-dusted WW2 drum.
Oh and Robert, where has my Waldorf salad got to please?
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Goedel von Brum
Oh and Robert, where has my Waldorf salad got to please?
Goedel von Brum
QUOTE (goedel @ 24 Sep 2007, 21:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>ME 26-06, I for one would really like to read your review of the S2/6, and I think there are many others who will be disappointed if you were discouraged by small minded people banging the oh-so-very-done-and-dusted WW2 drum.
I´ll continue to write it; I was on sick leave for 3/4 of a year after I broke my spine in a car accident (alcohol was involved; I was sober; the courts have found I was in no way to blame that the accident happened - still, I´m a happy man because a very able surgeon spared me from spending the rest of my life in a wheelchair) and have returned to beancounting last week, so I have a bit less time than I had before.
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I spent part of my childhood and youth in the US; I know what it feels like to be put down for something I was in no way able to influence - my heritage. Still, being from Schleswig-Holstein, it´s hard to shut me up, even for other Germans (ask a certain red-haired gal who lives with me). We have a reputation for being beyond stubborn up north. There may be some truth to that... go ahead, ask her!
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I´ll continue to write it; I was on sick leave for 3/4 of a year after I broke my spine in a car accident (alcohol was involved; I was sober; the courts have found I was in no way to blame that the accident happened - still, I´m a happy man because a very able surgeon spared me from spending the rest of my life in a wheelchair) and have returned to beancounting last week, so I have a bit less time than I had before.
I spent part of my childhood and youth in the US; I know what it feels like to be put down for something I was in no way able to influence - my heritage. Still, being from Schleswig-Holstein, it´s hard to shut me up, even for other Germans (ask a certain red-haired gal who lives with me). We have a reputation for being beyond stubborn up north. There may be some truth to that... go ahead, ask her!
QUOTE (Robert Sands @ 23 Sep 2007, 13:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>In this forum there seems to be an increasing number of threads that are based on the merits/defaults of one manufacturer or system against another with those who should know better jumping to the defence of their particular favourite.
Surely, the wiser modeller uses all manufacturers products as and when circumstances dictate their use, thus Fleischmann sits alongside Roco, Piko and Trix and it is only the obsessive compulsive that believes that one is generically better than t'other?
My own layout is populated by whatever fits the bill, not what is released by whatever manufacturer, however that is not to say that I do not use a better product when it becomes compromised (the BR50 is a good example). I also set myself a standard which is almost twenty-odd years old, and no loco is allowed to be less than that standard. This does not mean that I reduce the detail on my latest models but I do fit handrails and footsteps to my older stock- a rewarding exercise in both personal and financial terms.
Why not look upon the choices as being inclusive rather than partisan, we are indeed lucky to have choices!
Back to the original thread subject, are you sure Marklin/Trix are 100% made in Germany? I just bought a Minitrix wagon set and the cost of each unit was £14. The chassis are die cast metal and even the containers are weighted. They are superior to the Fleischmann equivalents at twice the cost. It makes me wonder where these are actually made as nowhere on the packaging is a definitive "Made in Germany" stamped.
ps (sorry if there was a hit of A vs B in the paragraph)
Surely, the wiser modeller uses all manufacturers products as and when circumstances dictate their use, thus Fleischmann sits alongside Roco, Piko and Trix and it is only the obsessive compulsive that believes that one is generically better than t'other?
My own layout is populated by whatever fits the bill, not what is released by whatever manufacturer, however that is not to say that I do not use a better product when it becomes compromised (the BR50 is a good example). I also set myself a standard which is almost twenty-odd years old, and no loco is allowed to be less than that standard. This does not mean that I reduce the detail on my latest models but I do fit handrails and footsteps to my older stock- a rewarding exercise in both personal and financial terms.
Why not look upon the choices as being inclusive rather than partisan, we are indeed lucky to have choices!
Back to the original thread subject, are you sure Marklin/Trix are 100% made in Germany? I just bought a Minitrix wagon set and the cost of each unit was £14. The chassis are die cast metal and even the containers are weighted. They are superior to the Fleischmann equivalents at twice the cost. It makes me wonder where these are actually made as nowhere on the packaging is a definitive "Made in Germany" stamped.
ps (sorry if there was a hit of A vs B in the paragraph)
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QUOTE (simonj @ 25 Sep 2007, 07:23) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Back to the original thread subject, are you sure Marklin/Trix are 100% made in Germany? I just bought a Minitrix wagon set and the cost of each unit was £14. The chassis are die cast metal and even the containers are weighted. They are superior to the Fleischmann equivalents at twice the cost. It makes me wonder where these are actually made as nowhere on the packaging is a definitive "Made in Germany" stamped.
ps (sorry if there was a hit of A vs B in the paragraph)
Apparently some of the stuff is being made in China now. The quality issue is not down to the Chinese but to how much effort is put in by the manufacturer in getting the desired result so the quality should be the same.
ME26-06, I was really looking forward to your S2/6 review, I would be really dissapointed if you chose not to share it with us.
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ps (sorry if there was a hit of A vs B in the paragraph)
Apparently some of the stuff is being made in China now. The quality issue is not down to the Chinese but to how much effort is put in by the manufacturer in getting the desired result so the quality should be the same.
ME26-06, I was really looking forward to your S2/6 review, I would be really dissapointed if you chose not to share it with us.
QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 24 Sep 2007, 23:47) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Apparently some of the stuff is being made in China now. The quality issue is not down to the Chinese but to how much effort is put in by the manufacturer in getting the desired result so the quality should be the same.
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Legally they need to say where something is made, but for instance if the major parts were made in China then the bogies attached in Germany then it could still where the "made in Germany" label.
Legally they need to say where something is made, but for instance if the major parts were made in China then the bogies attached in Germany then it could still where the "made in Germany" label.
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