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Although posted in the OO section IMHO this applies equally to OO & HO (although some of the issues are the same in other scales/gauges).

Some people (myself included) like to illuminate their coaches - to me it adds another interest, although "if you illuminate you have to populate" & then maybe add more detail inside & start changing the colours of seats, floors partitions…………..

We then immediately hit possible compromise -
If using RTR coaches the "floor" is generally too high so we have to chop off passengers legs.
You cannot get 4 HO figures sitting abreast in four HO seats - you may squeeze 4 HO into an OO coach though but they look too cramped.

If you illuminate to a prototypical level you have further compromise -
You will hardly see the lights on at all in either 1930's stock with dim tungsten lighting or even 2000's stock with bright fluorescent & tinted windows, unless the ambient light is almost non-existent.
But how do you "scale" light - look at the different ways you can "scale" time, distance & speed ?

It is getting easier to illuminate - there are kits available from many sources including the ones Richard produces - cost & visually effective - the "golden white" LED's really are superb & the effect on analogue is good with the "Fliker-Free's) & even better on DCC. (Somewhere on the forum is a picture of a conversion that one of our members posted). Adding pickups can be fiddly but once you have worked out how to, it gets easier. You can of course pick up from the locomotive or other coaches & use conductive couplings.

On SL we will try to achieve a compromise so that you will be able to see that the lights are on, but not too bright. People notice the coach lights when the trains are just in the tunnels at either end - when you look into the tunnel mouths you will see nothing - just blackness & not the operators on the other side. Even just adding tail lights makes a difference. Some modellers may think it's a gimmick, but the public likes gimmicks - & with the exception of the specialized shows it's the paying public that pay for you to be there if showing a layout.
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I have a Ho Lima scale carriage which has had lights added. It was quite simply done with an old christmas light and two wires added to each end connected to the the metal wheels sets. Works quite well for me although I don't have a paying public.

Wood Bumper Hardwood Automotive exterior Wood stain

Circuit component Wood Musical instrument accessory Electronic component Cable



I have used it very little as my layout is disassembled but would agree it needs a bit more thought but one can imagine it being done to add a bit of realism (??) to a child's layout. I bought the piece in a jumble sale and will of course fix it up 'properly' before using in on my (future) layout.

Thought I'd add this here in the forum to remind us that this hobby can achieve things simply (and isn't it a pity we tend to loose the child's imagination)....................

P.S. I do go 'whoo whoo' sometimes as I run the locos and am joined in the chorus by my seven year old daughter. This more than makes up for the lack of 'realistic' sound.
 

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In the case of our SBB IC2000 stock, (you can see them via this link), adding lighting will be the only way to show off the interior detail. Fortunately they come ready for you to fit an appropriate kit. /All/ you have to do is disassemble the model and get it back together again.

David
 

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Goodness Brian this is a rather thought provoking question for a Sunday!

What do we want with our coaches? Maybe Roco have gone to the extreme with their latest announcement with lights, opening doors and sound. While weight may be an issue, drag could also be a factor. I cannot see roller bearing coaches in HO being the answer let alone affordable!

As I become older and wiser (and maybe a bit more insane!) rakes of three coaches with a decoder to turn the light on and off in individual compartments, direction tail lights that can be turned on and off, correct interior colouring, people, and sound certainly has some appear.

Maybe, just maybe Roco's gimmicky with Brawas detailing is the answer!

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
QUOTE (john woodall @ 22 Jun 2008, 08:47) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Goodness Brian this is a rather thought provoking question for a Sunday!

What do we want with our coaches? Maybe Roco have gone to the extreme with their latest announcement with lights, opening doors and sound. While weight may be an issue, drag could also be a factor. I cannot see roller bearing coaches in HO being the answer let alone affordable!

As I become older and wiser (and maybe a bit more insane!) rakes of three coaches with a decoder to turn the light on and off in individual compartments, direction tail lights that can be turned on and off, correct interior colouring, people, and sound certainly has some appear.

Maybe, just maybe Roco's gimmicky with Brawas detailing is the answer!

John
Hi John,

Well, I thought I'd try & get everyones grey matter going, especially as it can be a little quiet here weekends. Maybe many of us are mostly on here during the week when they should be working (like Dave AKA BRITHO)


I'd completely forgotten about the opening doors & sound !

Drag for pickups does not have to be a problem. I have made some with phospher bronze strip that just rests across the uninsulated axel & thay do not have much drag at all. I'm sure that there was some details somewhere else on the forum of a spring like arrangement, where the coil went round the axel & was virtually friction free.

As for the Roco/Brawa combination - heat proof credit cards required
 

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QUOTE Would that be the set Mrs DWB liked when you were on your travels ?
Yes, the whole train including the Re460 is hers. She asked for it as a present for a special occasion. She's not a big jewelery fan and although she does like shoes and bags, they are not as permanent.

QUOTE Maybe Roco have gone to the extreme with their latest announcement with lights, opening doors and sound.

Given the detail that Roco are putting in coaches like the SBB set I mentioned above, it seems a logical progression, though whether people really want it and will pay for it is another matter. Nice as the IC2000 coaches are, they are not cheap. I'm just glad I paid for them last year when the Euro was a lot less valuable vs sterling than it is now.

David
 

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Hi Brian

I can see your point but the simple answer is yes, if you have the ability. It adds another dimension to your rolling stock. Yes it is a pain I know, painting the interior, people etc. I have just purchased off ebay plates, wine glasses etc to go inside my dining cars. Why? Remember seeing someone do it on here an thought it was fantastic. You only need to cater for yourself with lighting unless you do expo's etc and the public do love gimmicks no doubt about that.

I have the time and lots more soon as I will soon be working on a mine site in the middle of nowhere, 2 weeks on 1 off. Not a big drinker so what to do with the nights...... model trains!

Richard has also suggested getting posters of that era and reducing in size and putting in the coaches. Thats a great idea.

I would suggest to anyone who is thinking about it speak to Richard and buy 1 of his flicker free kits. With his new boards the hardest part is now getting the coach apart. It even makes me look like I know what I'm doing. The boards just make it so easy. For those that don't like soldering I tried holding the LED's in with super glue(414) just before this posting and it worked. Mid you, I'm not too keen on this method.



I think the biggest problem with coach lighting was the flickering and the light output. Both solved with caps and resistors.

That my bit.

Martin
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hi Martin,

The question was really to see what other people think - as far as I am concerned it is a must to (eventually) have all the coaches lit & populated. Richards kits are superb (we stock them too) & so versitile. In fact (shameless plug) all of Richards kits are very well thought out.

Thanks for the pics - it illustrates the units perfectly.

It's interesting to see the many different views & approach people have on the subject.
 

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THanks for posting the image of the new PCB's martin - it is appreciated.

QUOTE (Martin71 @ 23 Jun 2008, 14:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>For those that don't like soldering I tried holding the LED's in with super glue(414) just before this posting and it worked. Mid you, I'm not too keen on this method.

****Nor am I - The last thing I'd want to see is someone taking that as an acceptable way to assemble them!

QUOTE (Martin71 @ 23 Jun 2008, 14:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think the biggest problem with coach lighting was the flickering and the light output. Both solved with caps and resistors.

That my bit. Martin

There's way more than that to flickerfree Martin - the voltage stabilisation and load regulation are critical to good performance....

And....

I see U mentioned the mines... Did U get the go ahead for your fly in-fly out change then???.... I'm pleased if U did as you were keen on it - drop in for a cuppa and tell me about it!

Kind regards

Richard
 

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Sorry to bring this up again but I knew I had this photo somewhere.

As for the super glue idea Richard is right a terrible suggestion I made. So don't do it!

To the left bright coach lighting to the right prototypical lighting. Coach on left has 1 extra led and the same resistance. Ok, windows are bigger but 1 LED wont make that much difference.

Room had no ambient light.



Now something I have discovered with coach lighting. If you paint the interiors you get far better refraction hence better lighting. Now this is down to a couple of reasons. Firstly most paint contains titanium dioxide which gives us the brilliant white in paint paper etc so we get refraction from this. If you leave the interior unpainted the plastic ABS PVC absorbs the light and is a poor reflector.

m
 

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QUOTE (Brian Considine @ 22 Jun 2008, 12:18) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi John,

Drag for pickups does not have to be a problem. I have made some with phospher bronze strip that just rests across the uninsulated axel & thay do not have much drag at all. I'm sure that there was some details somewhere else on the forum of a spring like arrangement, where the coil went round the axel & was virtually friction free.

Hi guys,

I bought some of Richard's flicker-free units with the object of installing them in some Dapol Collett Carriages (N Gauge). I've hit a problem with how to power them, however, as, as far as I can tell, the axles appear to be non-metallic. That leaves me with the only option of attaching pickups which wipe the wheel treads.

Does anyone have any better suggestions ??

Cheers,

Expat
 

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QUOTE (Expat @ 25 Jun 2008, 01:26) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi guys,

I bought some of Richard's flicker-free units with the object of installing them in some Dapol Collett Carriages (N Gauge). I've hit a problem with how to power them, however, as, as far as I can tell, the axles appear to be non-metallic. That leaves me with the only option of attaching pickups which wipe the wheel treads.

Does anyone have any better suggestions ??

Cheers,

Expat

***Change the wheelsets.... Thats what I would do anyway, as axle wipers are much lower drag and more reliable - especially for N scale.

Regards

Richard
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Hi Richard,

I guess I knew the answer but was trying to avoid it. As I have 32 Collet carriages if I light them all I will need 32 x 2 bogies x 2 axles = 128 axle sets. Ouch !!!

Do you have any particular recommendations as to make.

I presume one wheel has to be isolated from the axle but not sure if they will come like this or if it will be case of DIY.

Cheers,

Trevor.
 

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QUOTE (Expat @ 25 Jun 2008, 22:59) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Richard,

I guess I knew the answer but was trying to avoid it. As I have 32 Collet carriages if I light them all I will need 32 x 2 bogies x 2 axles = 128 axle sets. Ouch !!!

Do you have any particular recommendations as to make.

I presume one wheel has to be isolated from the axle but not sure if they will come like this or if it will be case of DIY.

Cheers,

Trevor.

***Hi Trevor

I'm not much use at sourcing N scale parts I'm afraid - I'd measure the wheel diameter and see if perhaps one of the continental brands can help... they are almost certain to have live axle wheelsets. Perhaps Brian Considine can help??

Regards
Richard
 
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