[DiesAL]

I mostly model 70s and early 80s BR blue but have a few green livery locos (classes 25, 31 and 35 Hymek) and would like to know what coaching stock (other than BR blue and BR blue grey) would have been pulled by these locos on Midland and Western regions late 60s to early 70s.

I've seen several photos of maroon coaches and crimson and cream coaches but am not sure which ones they are.

Can anyone help?

 

[SRman]

For the late '60s and early '70s, maroon coaching stock would be appropriate, mixed with the blue/grey stock and green and blue diesels. Green stock could also apply for the Southern Region and for parts of the Western Region (up to Exeter).

Crimson and cream coaches were just about finished by the end of 1963, and even then were few and far between.

 

[nevardmedia]

The odd maroon ones did last until 1972 ish, though the bulk as already mentioned from 1968/9 would have been blue and grey. I believe the last green loco's (two tone) were around 1977/8 (Class 47's) .

For Mk1 & Mk2 carriages take a look at the Bachmann range if you haven't already - they're fab!

 

[f2paul]

I think you will find that maroon was on alot of the older coaches inherited from the big 4. Also the green coaches from the southern . The chocolate and cream was a Western Region theme but in looking into there use on the western i seem to find more in the maroon. Try goole images i bet there is a site or two dediccated to carriages history.

 

[poliss]

I found this website that might help. http://www.davidheyscollection.com/ Make sure to look through the links too.

 

[DiesAL]

Okay thanks guys.

But ... which maroon coaches? BR MK1s? Ex LMS? There seem to be a few different types and the photos I can find aren't very clear.

I'll probably stick with my Bachmann BR Blue/Grey MK1s, 2As and Inter Citys but woldn't mind a rake of older coaches for variation.

 

[SRman]

Sorry DiesAL (love the name!), I should have been a little clearer. I was referring to BR Mark 1 coaches. Very few pre-nationalisation types lasted beyond the mid-sixties, and only a handful went into blue and grey (some Hawksworth ones on the WR, Staniers on the LMR and ScR, and a few Gresley and Thompson coaches on the ER and ScR - a few got swapped between regions too).

The chocolate and cream Mk 1 coaches on the WR were mainly used on the crack expresses but were also being phased out (repainted maroon or even straight into blue and grey) by 1964/65 or thereabouts, cetainly only a very few with first class (FKs, FOs, BCKs and CKs) lasted long enough to gain yellow cant rail bands, which started to be applied to green or maroon stock in around 1963.

Mark 2 coaches might include the odd FK in maroon but all others would be blue and grey, and even those early FKs would probably have been blue and grey by the early '70s (educated guess here, though!).

Pre-Nationalisation types on the Southern remained green through to their ends of life, as far as I know - the only ex-Southern Railway stock that received blue, or blue and grey were the utility vans (PMVs, CCTs, BYs, etc) and the Maunsell mail coaches, plus some of the EMUs. None of those really fit the question you were asking.

Edit: Addendum: the Hymek was a relatively late type and would not have hauled too many crimson and cream coaches in their early lives.

I have tried to keep the answer simple but, as you can see, the subject of liveries gets quite complicated because there was never a straight change-over; painting thousands of items of stock takes many, many years to complete!

 

[7113]

OK, my turn to add to the mixing pot. By 1975 all coaching stock was in blue/grey with the exception of the legendary Derby test set. But, please note, this was not used for passenger workings - it was basically used as a load test for overhauled locos, and as such was rarely seen apart from around Derby. I did see it once, being hauled by class 23 baby deltic D5905, in itself a rare sighting.

The 25s and 31s were all drafted onto the Western Region in the early 70's to replace the Warships and Hymeks. The last of the Hymeks was withdrawn in rail blue in, I think, 1975.

The only incidence of pre-grouping coaches I can recall were the trains of preserved coaches run by the GWS/SVR at around the same time.

My recollections are that by 1974 the only locos still regularly to be seen in green were a few 37's and 47's - oh and the odd shunter.

Any help?

Regards

 

[DiesAL]

Thanks SRMan and BRITHO. Very detailed and useful replies.

I should have explained that although I'm modelling 70s/early 80s when I run my green liveries I would be reverting to mid to late 60s which is why I'm asking about the non BR Blue Grey coaching stock of which I already have plenty.

Your posts have answered my queries and it looks like a rake of MK1 Maroons are in order!

 

[7113]

QUOTE (DiesAL @ 13 May 2008, 20:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>when I run my green liveries I would be reverting to mid to late 60s which is why I'm asking about the non BR Blue Grey coaching stock of which I already have plenty.

Now if you are going to be running mid to late 60's you can run a mixture of maroon, green and blue/grey - it's all perfectly correct. I have numerous photos in books etc which show trains made up of all three colours. Having said that I also have a photo taken at Waterloo in 1966 of a Merchant Navy with a blue/grey carriage behind the tender.

Regards

 

[pcc4199]

Would be interesting to see a photo of ex-Gresley teak stock in blue & grey.

Andy

 

[SRman]

Mostly they were buffet/restaurant types, although the odd parcels or sleepers might have got into blue and grey. Model Rail magazine ran some pics not that long ago (I think late last year) but I'll have a look when I get a chance to give you a better reference. I know I personally saw a Gresley Buffet car parked in the bay at High Wycombe in 1984, although I suspect it was out of service by then.

 

[7113]

The Gresley buffet cars were a delight to travel in but did look very strange in the middle of a rake of BR standards!

Regards

 

[SRman]

Which reminds me: soon after the Gresley teak coaches were released a small group of us here in Melbourne were lucky enough to have an evening with Simon Kohler. I complained (tongue in cheek, of course!) that Hornby hadn't modelled the cakes and doughnuts to place in the display stand inside the Gresley buffet coach! Needless to say, Simon took it in the spirit it was intended.

I also commented that the Hornby Gresleys were almost enough to persuade me to change allegiance from modelling with a Southern flavour.

 

[7113]

QUOTE (SRman @ 19 May 2008, 09:17) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I also commented that the Hornby Gresleys were almost enough to persuade me to change allegiance from modelling with a Southern flavour.

Steady on there - if you're not careful we'll have to call yuo LNERman!

Regards

 

[SRman]

Maybe I'd better take out copyright on the name ... just in case!