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Cobalt iP digitals with approx. 10cm piano wire throw wire

239 Views 6 Replies 4 Participants Last post by  mj9
Hello!

TL;DR:
Cobalt iP Digital point motors under XPS extruded foam. Length of throw wire (inc bends/clearances) needs to be approx 10cm. Will 10cm long 1mm thick piano wire work reliably? Or is it too long and doomed to fail?

- - - -

I'm on my third iteration at building a baseboard. Versions 1 and 2 had 9mm ply board mounted on a wood frame, but both ply boards (very annoyingly) warped after several months of having them securely laid initially flat onto the frame. Decided to ditch the ply and go with XPS extruded foam. 4cm thick, because it was cheap and would allow me to carve out more terrain. I'd however already bought a bunch of Cobalt iPs and want to still use them if possible.

Here's how I've worked out the length of throw wire I'll actually need:

  • 37mm vertical motor clearance (from where the wire is screwed into the motor to top of motor)
  • 6mm for motor mounting board (probably MDF) glued under XPS.
  • 40mm thick XPS foam.
  • 3mm Track Bed (foam)
  • 3mm clearance to poke through sleeper
  • 5mm for bend in throw wire to plug it into the motor
  • 3mm clearance of foam pad that comes with motor (not sure if I'll add it, but if it deadens noise, I'd like to.)

This gives a grand total of...: 97mm

So I guess if I remove the foam pad and get rid of the bend distance, the actual throw length is closer to 9cm than 10cm. And I might be able to get away with a slightly thinner mounting board, though I obviously need the mounting screws to bite well.

Just measured the length of throw wire supplied with the motor, and it's 72mm (not including its bend of about 5mm.)

I've been in touch with DCC Concepts, and they've said that while they know of people successfully using lengths of throw wire up to 7cm, they don't know if 10cm would work reliably. But they did suggest a thickness of 1mm for the piano wire.

So... has anyone done this and can say that that length and thickness of piano wire is OK to go with?

If it's too long, I guess the other options are recessing the motors into the underside of the XPS board, or going with surface mount motors.

Thanks!
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I would try the 10cm wire first and check how firmly the switch rails are held against the running rails. The danger is that they are not held firmly and will move under a passing train to derail it.

If that is not reliable, you could use DCC concepts right angle adaptor
Cobalt Right-Angle Adapters w/Mounting Hardware (3 Pack)

This allows you to turn the motor on its side. It is intended for mounting under the baseboard to reduce the depth it needs. The reduced depth means the cavern you need to carve in the 40mm foam is shallower.

You will be able to use the alternative mounting holes to attach the motor to the top of the ply. You will have to reverse the wires on the angle adapter so that it points upwards away from the baseboard. As delivered the actuating wire is facing the mounting surface which is fine for an undermounted motor but you will be overmounting and need the opposite direction. As everything is secured by machine screws, alteration is not difficult.

David
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Hi and welcome.
Reading through, I wonder quite how the original 9mm Ply came to warp. You mentioned that it was set on a wooden frame, which got me to wonder if it was the frame, rather than the Ply, which caused the warp.

That being as it may, the question you asked was about the length and flex in the length of the operating rod. Given the measurements of the various layers and the desired maximum of 7cm in length, it should be possible to let up into the 40mm foam board by 20-25mm and fix the motor mounting board there. You could cut even further, if you like, for a shorter operating rod.

Alternatively, you could cut a rectangular hole straight through the 40mm foam board, enough to allow for the iP Digital to drop through. Small, 5mm width x 6mm deep, shelves, might be cut either side at the top of the hole, to let in two ends of the motor mounting boards. That would give approximately 57mm length for the operating rod, so you could keep to the one in the pack.

Wiring sockets should hang clear of the underside of the foam board, to connect them.

Julian
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Again Hi and Welcome to the Forum,
Looks like there is already some useful input / responses to your query - good luck on that front.
However, would echo the point / concern Julian raises initially, regarding the “warping” of the 9mm ply in your two previous baseboard builds. The support framework is a key factor, almost no matter what actual baseboard deck you run with (* even for an open framework approach). It might be worth a search on the Forum on “Baseboards / Baseboards Construction” to find the relevant information including the softwood sub-frame; as this will still need to be correct for a 100mm foam / insulation top deck, to avoid potential further future problems.
Best of luck, Cheers for now, Norm
A couple of baseboard ideas that may be of interest to you, if you haven't yet started them.

I have a 4ft shunting game made by by reinforcing 40mm foam, which when supported at either end and stood on, [10st 11lb], it moved 1mm and it can't warp. It's simply a sandwich with 3 Ply top and bottom. The ply doesn't have to cover the whole sheet of foam, just match some lengths above and below - in logical places. The foam then acts like millions of tiny struts between the ply lengths, like a girder bridge. I have a picture of the underside, to illustrate a channel for electrics and point motors etc.

Table Wood Electrical wiring Floor Flooring


Re. ply baseboards, they are commonly made of all ply structure, like the WWII Mosquito. Probably the most accurate way is to buy them in kit form, laser-cut, ready to glue, accurate and no waste. These are from Tim Horn, who was very good and can do CAD designs to suit your needs, there are quite a number of firms doing them now. Again they are warp proof, light and very tough. [6mm top & sides, with 3mm perforated, braces & importantly, no softwood to warp.] The shapes also give plenty of room / support for electrics, points etc.

Musical instrument Wood Musical instrument accessory Cabinetry Chest of drawers


Table Furniture Computer desk Writing desk Desk


Julian

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Some great replies and ideas! Thank you dwb, Julian and Norman!

Re the plywood: No, it definitely isn't the frame. Being a bit new at this, I bought really overly thick wood to build the frame (3.5 x 9 cm cross section) and it is very straight and sturdy. The first 9mm ply I bought was already a bit warped, maybe arcing up 4 cm in the centre of one end, but I assumed that pinning/glueing it down would keep it flat*. It did at first, but a few months later there was a very noticable bulge at one end of my board. Worrying it would keep getting worse, I removed it. It's now sitting on my scrap heap outside, where that bulge is at least 10 or 15cm depending on the time of day. (In retrospect I wonder if sealing it only on the upper side constributed to the worsening bulge.) Anyway, I replaced it with another sheet of 9mm ply that I made sure was 100% flat down to perhaps a few mm distortion. I chose to screw it down this time (given how hard it had been to remove the last one), and not seal it at all, but again, a few months in, it began bulging up in the centre of one of the ends...

Maybe it's just that the quality of the ply is just bad. (I sourced it from the same place.) Or I've just been really unlucky. I really don't know. What I do know is that sourcing it and sizing it twice has been quite expensive. And that now, with the XPS everything is super flat, and as a very considerable bonus, is a tiny fraction of the original weight. In all, I'm pretty happy with the switch. So far!

(* Almost forgot the countless YouTube videos I sat through claiming that wetting ply on one side and letting it bake in the sun on the other would straighten it - it does, but only for a few hours. Once it's warped, there is certainly no way of straightening it that I know of that doesn't consist of adding so many cross-members that you might as well just pin it to a solid surface, defeating the whole point.)
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A couple of baseboard ideas that may be of interest to you, if you haven't yet started them.

I have a 4ft shunting game made by by reinforcing 40mm foam, which when supported at either end and stood on, [10st 11lb], it moved 1mm and it can't warp. It's simply a sandwich with 3 Ply top and bottom. The ply doesn't have to cover the whole sheet of foam, just match some lengths above and below - in logical places. The foam then acts like millions of tiny struts between the ply lengths, like a girder bridge. I have a picture of the underside, to illustrate a channel for electrics and point motors etc.

View attachment 24504

Re. ply baseboards, they are commonly made of all ply structure, like the WWII Mosquito. Probably the most accurate way is to buy them in kit form, laser-cut, ready to glue, accurate and no waste. These are from Tim Horn, who was very good and can do CAD designs to suit your needs, there are quite a number of firms doing them now. Again they are warp proof, light and very tough. [6mm top & sides, with 3mm perforated, braces & importantly, no softwood to warp.] The shapes also give plenty of room / support for electrics, points etc.

View attachment 24506

View attachment 24507

Julian

Wow! Those all look fantastic, Julian!

I'm a little too far down the line with the construction of my baseboard, and quite happy with it now. But that is definitely something I will consider should I get to the point of extending it or doing another one.

PS. Some of that furniture reminded me a lot of my old house and for a moment I wondered if I was looking at an old photo of mine!
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