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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, I'm Rob & I'm new, so go easy....

I've been building a collection of Peco Wonderful Wagons in OO Gauge over the years, I've got at least one example of just about every model ever made (apart from 2 of the approx 96 in the range that I know of).

The thing is, finding information of history of the models is quite a challenge, even Peco seem reluctant to share what they have (if indeed they have much). So I've taken to buying old Peco catalogues off eBay and I've started piecing together the history of the models, release dates and so on.

So what I'm looking to do is acquire any information out there on these little models, so I can build a detailed history. My plan ultimately is to produce a definitive history of the models to share with those who may be interested. Information may be personal knowledge, old catalogues, maybe even the two models I'm missing - I'd be happy to pay a reasonable amount for physical items.

Things I'm not sure about include when the various Series / Mks were released (this seems to roughly align with the decades) and what were the differences, when they went out of production, that sort of thing. Does anyone out there have any information or inkling to help?

There is honestly no information out there for these models - I thought it might be interesting to curate a little corner of modelling history. Anyone else interested?

Thanks in advance,

Rob T.

p.s. the models I am missing are R-62BF BR 3 Plank in Red Oxide (seems like it was only available around 1962 to 1965) and W-03 National Benzole tank wagon (it appears in a catalogue but not on a price list so I'm not sure it was ever released).
 

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Rob, Welcome to the house of fun.

Here's a suggestion. If you are willing to consider a subscription to Railway Modeller, Peco are bundling full access to the online Railway Modeller, all issues from 1949. On the assumptions that the review pages are included, and that Peco never failed to advertise their own product, that should get you pretty close to the release sequence?

ATB with your project.


Further thought, is anybody keeping a record of the current RTR OO antics? Since my resumption of OO railway modelling, happily brought about by the sudden emergence of RTR to a decent standard in the late 1990s, after which I largely stocked my layout first with Bachmann, then added some Hornby, then added some Heljan products: this mix of three brands persisting up to mid 2018; when the Rapido for NRM Stirling Single arrived.

Since when RTR OO items from Accurascale, Dapol, Hattons, and Oxford Rail have pitched up on my layout, and there's every prospect of a purchase from Sonic, while any of Cavalex, Kernow, KRM, RoS, Revolution and SLW have only to make something fitting my interest to win a purchase. (And while all the above was going on ViTrains and DJM appeared and evaporated too.)
 

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I'd be quite interested to see how this project develops. I've built or restored a few of these and they have a wonderful heritage feel to them. I also spent quite a while trying to track down one of the earliest releases, the wooden-bodied W Craven Llewelyn coal wagon from the mid-50s. It didn't last long in their catalogue either. I eventually found two.

Train Vehicle Motor vehicle Rolling stock Mode of transport



Tony
 

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Rob, Welcome to the house of fun.

Here's a suggestion. If you are willing to consider a subscription to Railway Modeller, Peco are bundling full access to the online Railway Modeller, all issues from 1949. On the assumptions that the review pages are included, and that Peco never failed to advertise their own product, that should get you pretty close to the release sequence?

ATB with your project.


Further thought, is anybody keeping a record of the current RTR OO antics? Since my resumption of OO railway modelling, happily brought about by the sudden emergence of RTR to a decent standard in the late 1990s, after which I largely stocked my layout first with Bachmann, then added some Hornby, then added some Heljan products: this mix of three brands persisting up to mid 2018; when the Rapido for NRM Stirling Single arrived.

Since when RTR OO items from Accurascale, Dapol, Hattons, and Oxford Rail have pitched up on my layout, and there's every prospect of a purchase from Sonic, while any of Cavalex, Kernow, KRM, RoS, Revolution and SLW have only to make something fitting my interest to win a purchase. (And while all the above was going on ViTrains and DJM appeared and evaporated too.)
Very similar to my timeline/buying logic 34C. Notably on the ViTrains, I bought many of the Rail Express mags with their Model RE inserts and got into modern traction as I could see it disappearing. i also bought alot of the Traction series videos and DVDs which actually give me increasing satisfaction to watch now. I was also buying quite alot of the ViTrains locos since they were good VFM IMHO (mostly Class 37 & 47s) and detailed them with etched nameplates and buffer detail etc. The driver (inspiration) was what I would see on the Traction videos. I wonder what caused the demise of ViTrains UK outline? Cheers...ramble over 😉
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Jolly good idea, I've done that! That will be sure to keep me quiet over the Christmas holidays.... Thanks for your input!
 

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Hello, I'm Rob & I'm new, so go easy....

I've been building a collection of Peco Wonderful Wagons in OO Gauge over the years, I've got at least one example of just about every model ever made (apart from 2 of the approx 96 in the range that I know of).

The thing is, finding information of history of the models is quite a challenge, even Peco seem reluctant to share what they have (if indeed they have much). So I've taken to buying old Peco catalogues off eBay and I've started piecing together the history of the models, release dates and so on.

So what I'm looking to do is acquire any information out there on these little models, so I can build a detailed history. My plan ultimately is to produce a definitive history of the models to share with those who may be interested. Information may be personal knowledge, old catalogues, maybe even the two models I'm missing - I'd be happy to pay a reasonable amount for physical items.

Things I'm not sure about include when the various Series / Mks were released (this seems to roughly align with the decades) and what were the differences, when they went out of production, that sort of thing. Does anyone out there have any information or inkling to help?

There is honestly no information out there for these models - I thought it might be interesting to curate a little corner of modelling history. Anyone else interested?

Thanks in advance,

Rob T.

p.s. the models I am missing are R-62BF BR 3 Plank in Red Oxide (seems like it was only available around 1962 to 1965) and W-03 National Benzole tank wagon (it appears in a catalogue but not on a price list so I'm not sure it was ever released).
This is a great initiative Rob; I have always been a fan of these wagons and picked them up at fairs when I saw them as I couldn't believe what good VFM they were. These are mine at around a fiver each, plus some container card kits 🤗

R74U 3 United Dairies Tank Wagon
R75RD 2 Royal Daylight Tank Wagon
R75S 1 Shell/BP Tank Wagon
R75S 3 Shell/BP Tank Wagon
1 10T IZAL products Wagon
1 7-Plank Emlyn Anthracite Wagon
1 10T Saxa Salt Wagon
1 10T Saxa Salt Wagon
1 Colmans Mustard Traffic
1 Tarmac Mineral (5 Plank)
R-66R 2 Raleigh Cycles Container
R-66JL 2 Lyons Tea Container
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
From what I have found out so far, W. Craven Llewelyn was one of the initial range of 12 Wonderful Wagons. It was a Series 1 model so it had the wooden sides, not the one piece die cast body of the series 2 onwards models. It was available until about 1960 until the series 1 models were completely discontinued (the 12th edition catalogue from 1962 confirms they are no longer in production).

Interestingly, in the series one range, released 1954, there were two models with a 'coal smeared weathered look' as well as the 'clean' look (C&G Ayres and Frank Jackman). I do wonder if this is the earliest example of a manufacturer factory weathering a product but I don't know for sure and I haven't had chance to research sufficiently to prove it either...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
This is a great initiative Rob; I have always been a fan of these wagons and picked them up at fairs when I saw them as I couldn't believe what good VFM they were. These are mine at around a fiver each, plus some container card kits 🤗

R74U 3 United Dairies Tank Wagon
R75RD 2 Royal Daylight Tank Wagon
R75S 1 Shell/BP Tank Wagon
R75S 3 Shell/BP Tank Wagon
1 10T IZAL products Wagon
1 7-Plank Emlyn Anthracite Wagon
1 10T Saxa Salt Wagon
1 10T Saxa Salt Wagon
1 Colmans Mustard Traffic
1 Tarmac Mineral (5 Plank)
R-66R 2 Raleigh Cycles Container
R-66JL 2 Lyons Tea Container
That's a nice little collection there. The Emlyn wagon was only produced from around 72 to 75, give or take, and is thus not available is such high numbers as, say, the Kingsbury wagon that enjoyed a run from around 65 to the end of production in the late 80s. Incidentally, I used to live near Kingsbury and it is the Kingsbury wagon kit that got me hooked...

Saxa Salt might be a series 1 model, if it has the base that is 'detailed' as in it says this is a Peco wagon made in Seaton as opposed to just saying 'PECO', check to see if it has a card roof. If it does, it is a rare series 1 model that was only available for a very limited time in the late 50s. They were also made from 72 on, ish, with a plastic roof and a PECO chassis - this model is far more common as it was available pretty much until the end of production.

Same with your Mustard van, was available for a short period in '68 (was one of their first box vans) so if it has detailed chassis info and a card roof, it's a rare series 1. If it has a PECO chassis and a plastic roof it is from about '81 on.

If you see a container IC Fuzzey, buy it, they are like hens teeth. The one I have is the only one I've ever found for sale and I've been looking for years.

:cool:
 

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... I wonder what caused the demise of ViTrains UK outline? ...
Short answer would be 'too much established competition'.

ViTrains were never in the UK, they were the supplier to Hobbyco in just the same way that Lima had been supplier to Riko.

The oft told story is that the ex-Lima people that formed ViTrains managed to retain Lima's work on better class 37 and 47 models when Lima went under; and then sought to resume the pattern of trading with a UK customer, which handled the marketing and distribution. The operation was exactly as previously, churn the model in as many livery variations as the customer base would absorb.

I am pretty sure that Hobbyco quite rapidly found there wasn't sufficient demand to deliver the margin they required. The main problem was that unlike the previous Lima/Riko scenario which had no effective competition, Hobbyco faced three established competitors with competent product for the 'cheap and cheerful', 'decent' and 'better' slots, and much greater choice of subjects. As perceived by someone not in the business, Hobbyco ceased ordering and walked away.

To ViTrains credit, even with Hobbyco out of the picture, they have responded to UK end customer requests for spares.
 

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These two were pretty long lived as well....
View attachment 20410

View attachment 20411

Tony
Short answer would be 'too much established competition'.

ViTrains were never in the UK, they were the supplier to Hobbyco in just the same way that Lima had been supplier to Riko.

The oft told story is that the ex-Lima people that formed ViTrains managed to retain Lima's work on better class 37 and 47 models when Lima went under; and then sought to resume the pattern of trading with a UK customer, which handled the marketing and distribution. The operation was exactly as previously, churn the model in as many livery variations as the customer base would absorb.

I am pretty sure that Hobbyco quite rapidly found there wasn't sufficient demand to deliver the margin they required. The main problem was that unlike the previous Lima/Riko scenario which had no effective competition, Hobbyco faced three established competitors with competent product for the 'cheap and cheerful', 'decent' and 'better' slots, and much greater choice of subjects. As perceived by someone not in the business, Hobbyco ceased ordering and walked away.

To ViTrains credit, even with Hobbyco out of the picture, they have responded to UK end customer requests for spares.
Thanks 34C. Its funny how these things come and go and we live through it. I have all the Rail Express double-spread ads and the artwork is worth framing in itself.
 

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These two were pretty long lived as well....
View attachment 20410

View attachment 20411
Er
Tony
Tony, they are great and would like to find them as my parents/grandparents came from Burton (my GF was the manager of the Marmite factory after being an SE5 pilot in WW1) and my sister and I spent many holidays there, esp sat in the back of the car with a bottle of pop and bag of Smiths with salt blue sachet ;-). I also used to think that every town had as many railways crossing the roads until I travelled. Great memories...the hunt is on! PS are they in OO gauge?
 

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PS are they in OO gauge?
They are OO Reddo and, if made sufficiently carefully, have sprung buffers and a rudimentary form of compensation: the axle boxes are sprung but, in reality, the models are insufficiently heavy to really take advantage of it.

The two brewery vans are relatively common on eBay both in kit form and already constructed. Of late however, sellers have started asking wholly unrealistic prices for these Peco wagons: for eg. a French seller has an unmade Bass van for over £40 [when postage added in] currently. TBH, I wouldn't pay more than a tenner all-in unless you were desperate to complete a collection.

You'll find one eventually at a sensible price, just keep looking.

Tony
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Anthony is correct, the wagons come up on eBay quite a lot (a nice pair of wagons there too Anthony). Sometimes there are many available, other times not. At the minute there are lots of them available, some prices are sensible some not so. I got a lot of my wagons for abound 2 to 3 quid each but there are not many at that price now. My personal feeling is that a well made example in good condition with Hornby couplers and in a fair original box is worth a tenner or so. There is a BASS van on eBay in this lot;


Sadly I can't see a Worthington one for sale at the minute but keep looking and I'm sure one will pop up in time.
 

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Thanks both, I have an Ebay search set up now. I also did a check Robby and the Saxa & Colmans ones are in the early boxes marked Seaton but they all have the plastic roofs which is fine as I will build them with either drop link couplings or Kadee/Bachmann US couplings if they were vacuum (?) fitted. As you say, they are wonderful kits (pun intended) and really add a nice diversity to the other Slaters, Ratio and Parkside wagons I have built. I also have some very old Three Aitch kits to build too...
 

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Somewhere or other I have the bodies of a Tarmac five plank open and three vans, Blue Circle, Carricks and another in brown, liveried for a rope and twine mfr of Musselbrugh. All likely to be stripped of at least wheels, buffers and W irons, recycled onto other models. Anyone interested can have them for postage. The only one still running is an ICI salt wagon, making its way to an ICI Plastics division location on the 'Welwyn shunt'.
... I also have some very old Three Aitch kits to build too...
How I liked these kits when they were introduced, models of essential general merchandise vehicles, and with excellent steel tyred pinpoint wheelsets: dozens of these models on my operation, probably still the largest kit manufacturer wagon group I have. When I got wind of KX models closing up, I pretty much cleared their remaining stock of Three Aitch OO kits and MGW wheelsets, used the last underframe kit a couple of years past, still got a few 10mm dia wheels for an SCV project that has been in the queue since the 1970s. (Slow worker, me.)
 
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