[David Pennington]

I have got to the point where I am reconsidering what I am doing with my new N Gauge layout.

This is what I have:

This all seemed very reasonable until I bought the coaches required for the "express" train that would come in and out once a day.

I set the train up in the station at Pennvale and then ran it out to the fiddle yard. It all seemed very underwhelming. I realised that, having spent nearly £300.00 on the train itself, that all I got out of it was about 10 feet of train movement. I talked to my wife about this as I found that talking to her often makes things clearer, even if she isn't really interested in my problems (grin). I admitted that I wished that I could have a layout with a continuous run and then I could enjoy the train travelling for some time before it had to stop.

In discussions with her, we have agreed that I can re-organise my hobby room. By moving shelves and display cabinets, I can free up on whole wall of the room. This gives me 174" - 14' 6" - 4.4m. The maximum depth is at both ends - 32" with the bulk of the area limited to 24".

This is what it looks like:

This lets me have one 14" loop at each end (double track with 12" inside) and then a 90" run in the middle for the station/s.

Money, for straight track, is not a limit as I can get 25 yards for £64.00 so I am up for some ideas as to how I should go about filling (well, not filling but you know what I mean) this space. I would still like to have a main station with a branch line coming in. If I can work in the branch having a quay for fish traffic, that would be good.

Suggestions as to outlines please?

 

[dwb]

Hmm. As your preference for continuous running matches mine, have you come to my next preference which is that you want to have different trains running continuously which for me meant having storage sidings on the loop?

I have never modelled N, so I can't offer any personal experience. The one observation that I can make is that a lot of N exhibition layouts seem to be about two feet in width and they look and operate fine.

David

 

[Robert Stokes]

I agree that storage loops are a good idea. I would have at least three loops in each direction behind scenery at the back. If they are perfectly straight then you can make them closer together than is normal by slightly cutting the points involved. I have never worked in N-gauge but in 00 gauge I have eight loops in 42 cm of width.

Good luck with the project.

Robert

 

[David Pennington]

I forgot to mention that the upper edge of the plan is against the wall. The railway is built on top of kitchen units. Also, I have bad arthritis so I operate the railway from a mobile office chair as standing up and bending over are to no-nos for anything other than a short space of time.

This is why, in the current plan, the fiddle yard is 3" high and the branch terminus is 2" high. This gets me simpler access to the fiddle yard.

It may be that the way forward is to hide the back side of the layout under a removable branch terminus and, after a set number of loops around the track, the incoming train is defined as a new one. As in, train a leaves for Carlisle. Five loops of the track for fun and then the train becomes train b arriving from Manchester. It has a draw back in that each train that goes north has a "doppelganger" that comes from the south. This might need some clever timetabling but it would be better than me having to reach across 2 feet of scenincked baseboard.

Another idea would be to have the main board built up to 4" high and have the storage tracks at the front an 1 3/8" below the main level. The gradients should be manageable given the space I have. (I have to have a certain depth as I use Cobalt IP motors which require at least 2 5/8" minimum below the baseboard). This way, the front edge storage yards wouldn't ruin the view of the main board.

I could do with some ideas for how to change what I have built above to meet the new space (I don't mean hack it about, I am lifting everything and building a new baseboard).

 

[dwb]

QUOTE storage tracks at the front an 1 3/8" below the main level
This sounds good to me. You may be able to arrange it so that the tracks rise from front to back like steps which should mean everything is accessible. You could start with the storage loops uncovered and if they prove to be trouble free add a scenic removable cover to go on top.

David

 

[Ron2]

Hi David,

I model N gauge as you may have seen, my model room is 6ft 6ins x 6ft 6ins, small I know but its the only space I have.

My priority was continuous double track running and so I went for a folded figure of eight. This has given me approx 2 x 45ft of continuous track and some decent radius track in each corner.

I have 24" deep boards on two walls and then a 18" and a 12" on the other two. On one of the 24" boards working from front edge to back I have 9" for an engine shed and associated yard then 4" for the two main tracks which are running down an incline from the figure of eight crossover point. After this I am left with 11" to the back wall which has 6 storage tracks and in hindsight it could have taken 8 tracks, this storage area will be fronted by a shallow scenic break.

Hope this helps with an idea of sizes.

Cheers
Ron

 

[David Pennington]

OK, things have progressed. I have a space that is 2' wide and 14' 6" long. I can extend the width of the ends out to about 2' 4" to accommodate #4 and #3 radius setrack curves. I have a lot of arthritis so I build all my baseboards out of 5mm foam core, suitably braced as I can lift this to work underneath. As I have reduced mobility due to problems with hips and lower back, I scoot around on an office chair. This means that I want things to be as easy as I can manage.

Back to pennvale Sands - I had the scenario all worked out - holiday town at the end of a double track branch of the WCML. A further branch from Pennvale to a small town called Ellerby that was a fishing port and shipped fish vans, via Pennvale out to the big cities. I had a DMU that ran up and down the branch and a 4 coach local passenger that ran to Carlisle. There was a small amount of goods traffic and daily mineral trans supplying coal to both pennvale and Ellerby. This was built on an L shape, with Pennvale being 9' long and the branch on the other leg being 6' 6" (with a fiddle yard for the main line at the back of the branch).

I have now reorganised the room o that the long leg can go the complete length of the room (9' out to 14' 6") and I have lost the other leg of the L.

I have tried very hard to create the same idea as the above scenario but found it impossible, firstly to incorporate the existing 9' x 1' 4" terminus into the new layout and, secondly, to incorporate a branch. The board must sit hard up against a wall so there is only access from the front (the ends are against the end walls). I have now been concentrating on building the idea of Pennvale being on a loop line from the WCML so it is a through station. I still want it to have the branch as I have all these fish vans and a DMU which I only bought recently. Plus, my LHS has some more fish vans that I ordered but has kindly put into stock as I couldn't see the need for 16 of these (the original idea was two trains of 8 wagons - one loaded, one empty).

I have spent years doing US HO and if this was a US layout, I wouldn't have any problems but, being BR, I am having difficulty laying out the station.

The following image if an AnyRail plan that is semi-complete. Regarding the fiddle yard, O do not have access to the back unless I lean over so it is designed to be able to take fixed rakes of passenger coaches - the local has 4 Stanier coaches including 2 brakes - one at each end - and the express has 6 Mk1s again with a brake at each end. These can run into the fiddle yard and with a simple move of the loco, go back out again. The DMU can do the same. The nearest fiddle yard track is dedicated to goods traffic and is set so that I canreach without too much difficulty to change compositions and directions.

The branch (not shown on the plan - mainly because I can't work it out as of yet) has lost its fishing industry as it must be "higher" than the main station. The fish for the processing plant will come from outside.

Well, this is how far I have got but I am at a loss to incorporate the goods yard into this. Also, as I have an 08 that I fitted for DCC, I would like to use that in the station if possible.

 

[David Pennington]

I have done a bit more work and labelled up some of the stuff.

I still haven't worked out how to get the branch in.

Here goes.

The points that go nowhere are there just to get the curves right. They are not part of the plan.

 

[Bear 1923]

Environmental Health are surely going to have something to say about putting the cattle dock(s) next to the fish processing plant.

You have also added USA style Facing connections into a USA style goods loop. UK practice is much less likely to have a loop and connections (for your era) would normally be Trailing except where essential.
So the direct access to/from the DMMU bay is okay(ish) * but the direct access to the fish and cow area is drastically not appropriate.
One way to figure out which way round to connect sidings is to keep in mind that a train wants to shove wagons back into a siding as far as possible.
It is not unreasonable in UK practice for the points to a siding on the other side of a double track to be trailing points which lead back over a diamond crossing in the other line into the siding (which will have a Trap Point [or sometimes a de-railer] to protect the Running Lines).

Of course - everything depends on how "realistic / realistically UK" you want your layout to look.

* Should really be a double junction arrangement - the same as going from double line main to single line branch - but we'd probably best not go there...

 

[Richard Johnson]

*** It occurs to me that having the station between two goods areas makes it all far harder than it should be - and - in reality it is perhaps more likely that "industrial stuff & commerce" would be in one area not two for a more local station. Clear separation of passengers and goods/livestock/industry has always been a factor in track design where geography allowed it.

If one end of the layout had amore tangential / gentle curved link between curve and long straight, with the station following, and the industrial/goods are was at the other end and all served via an appropriate main line link, it may end up more interesting to operate as well as being more prototypical perhaps?. MR practice would have been trailing point + single slip for the cross-line access, with trailing point on the "near" line, giving a nice operational access.

Look at stations such as the original Settle track plan to see just how interesting that sort of "yard to main" relationship can be

regards, Richard

 

[kristopher1805]

I agree with Richard, I have a lot of track plans but you want something of a secondary line, anyway worth finding signal box diagrams and looking at those the plan for Firsby on the GNR line is very interesting, there are plenty of others on there to suit all sizes and tastes and anything GCR cannot be at all bad, modest GCR through stations can be found on 'The last mainline' website plans section anyway I am sure there are plenty of others so although Ok and it fits it could be improved

ps are you still stuck on 12 points?

Finally - no you have a number of points but a double roundy would be better, you have almost a double roundy anyway, - finish the job perhaps!

 

[David Pennington]

I think that my points have been having fun in the draw as I now seem to have over 20! I also have 21 Cobalt point motors. No wonder I have no money left - grin.

This is all becoming too much. My needs are very simple. A roundy-roundy with double track - yes I got that wrong on this plan:-( ; a reason to run an express, a local and a DMU plus some interesting goods trains - a general goods, a mineral train and a fish train, and run them at least twice in a "day".

As I have said before, I could rattle this off for a US layout but you lot are making it hard for me to progress. As soon as I think I understand, something else gets in the way.

I have put a single slip in for the DMU to get across the main into the bay. However, trying to get a trailing point access to a goods yard across double track seems to me to be impossible given the geometry of the Peco code 80 points and crossings. I can't see that any way of using a crossing enables correct double track spacing.

I think that I am best off laying out the track for the known good bits and then moving bits around until it works. If it isn't 100% prototypical then rule 1 will have to apply although I have been trying to avoid that.

I am off for the weekend (not actually as I am retired - but off this forum until I have something more to talk about, with real experience. I have to make the baseboard - a two hour job using foam core - and then lay some track to see what we have. Back on Monday, I hope!

 

[Bear 1923]

Before you escape for the weekend - what's this about "maintaning correct track spacing"?

Wiggle like the real railway does!

The only "law" on spacing is never less than 6ft between adjacent rails of seperate tracks. ... In practice we have to adjust this (outwards) on models when we use ridiculously tight curves.

Another alternative would be to move the siding/yard over to the other side of the double track - instant "no need" for the diamond.

A thing here - your double track doesn't have to run parallel to the face of the baseboard - you can angle it, curve it - even waggle it.

You say that we make it hard for you to convert from USA practice... I disagree - I think that you are making it hard for yourself - trying to leap from one world to another in minimal time. You will nearly certainly have more success (and more enjoyment) if you take more time to research UK railways - to even "just" take a long look at UK model magazines. Have you been to any of the larger model railway shows - take a look at what other people have achieved - ask them questions "in the flesh".

You wouldn't try to switch from radio controlled aircraft to radio controlled submarines in a rush would you?

You need time!!!

 

[David Pennington]

I am learning wiggle. I wasn't trying to blame you lot. I am very grateful for all of your help. It was a tongue in cheek comment. I am acquiring some books over the weekend which should help. There aren't any big shows coming up (apart from Ally Pally and I am not risking going as I am not sure about wheelchair access if it is very busy).

I can't move outwards as the limit is the 2' kitchen worktop on the units. I can manage 27 - 28" at each end but not along the whole width. I have decided to flip the ayout over so that the fiddle yard is at the front. This is giving me some more scope as I now have the full 14'6" for the main station as it isn't hemmed in by the curves.

I am going to relax this weekend and do some reading. Back on Monday.

 

[David Pennington]

I am just catching up with my N gauge efforts last year. It all came to nought as I had to give up my hobby room as my mother-in-law has come to stay. I wrote about this in the last entry on my Pennvale Sands Blog.

I was left with a space at he end of our bedroom. We have space down there under the window for my Open University supplied height adjustable desk. I did rebuild Pennvale as a small station to fiddle yard layout but this wasn't working. I had a big rethink and worked out that what I really wanted to see was trains running with a minimum of effort. After a little thought, I sold up my N Gauge and "invested" in Märklin H0 three rail AC.

So, this will be the last entry in the N Gauge area. I will pass over to the Continental HO section and continue with my original Gentle Model Railway blog

David
Was main man on the Sunset and North Eastern
now der Ingenieur an der Strecke Pennstadt / Valdorf
(the engineer on the Pennstadt/Valdorf line.