It will be a long time before I ever buy a Dapol wagon sight unseen, because of an estupido wheel form seen on these milk tanks when they were first released. In short: tyre not coned, front face of flange at right angles to the tyre, rear face of flange tapered to a near knife edge. The end result is that they ran without the natural self centering action of a coned tyre, and at speed - and milk trains were worked fast - the weaving about was very obvious and occasionally lead to derailments which would even occur on plain track. Deeply unimpressed.
Dapol wagon wheel back-to-backs.
I recently bought 12 Dapol milk wagons brand new in two batches of six from different suppliers. All of them had to have their wheels eased outwards using a 14.5mm gauge. (N0 wonder some of them derailed first time out.) Is this a normal feature of Dapol wagons?
Robert
Robert
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
I have a few of the Dapol 6 wheel tankers which have the offending wheels - no coning and dreadful flanges.
They ran very hard and noisily on my track and derailments were common - which is very unusual for me.
I just replaced the wheels with some from Hornby as it wasn't possible to make something good out of the Dapol rubbish!
They ran very hard and noisily on my track and derailments were common - which is very unusual for me.
I just replaced the wheels with some from Hornby as it wasn't possible to make something good out of the Dapol rubbish!
I found having 3 axles a problem as sometimes the centre axle caused problems with some points. Cured by enlarging the centre axle bearing so that the axle was basically floating and free to move up and down.
With a lot of Dapol wagons I found the problems with wobbly wheels. I did not know this when I bought them. I bought a Dapol replacement wheel pack and found on testing that the 'yield' of acceptable wheels was about the same as the number of axles in a pack of Hornby wheels. So the plan is to replace all the wheels with Hornby ones the main problem being erratic supply.
No I am not going to replace the Dapol wagons because basically modifying them is still cheaper than buying other makes, plus very few wagon types are available and I don't mind having 'generic' wagons.
With a lot of Dapol wagons I found the problems with wobbly wheels. I did not know this when I bought them. I bought a Dapol replacement wheel pack and found on testing that the 'yield' of acceptable wheels was about the same as the number of axles in a pack of Hornby wheels. So the plan is to replace all the wheels with Hornby ones the main problem being erratic supply.
No I am not going to replace the Dapol wagons because basically modifying them is still cheaper than buying other makes, plus very few wagon types are available and I don't mind having 'generic' wagons.
Dapol wheels are rubbish. I built a few of the ex airfix kits and, using the wheels supplied, they derailed constantly, even on straight track. Replacing them with Hornby wheels completely cured the problem.
QUOTE (mr angry @ 26 Mar 2021, 17:55) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Dapol wheels are rubbish. I built a few of the ex airfix kits and, using the wheels supplied, they derailed constantly, even on straight track. Replacing them with Hornby wheels completely cured the problem.
I use Hornby wheels as a matter of course on Dapol wagon kits.
Note that there are two variations of wheels in these kits: originally, when Dapol first took them over, they were supplied with the original Airfix plastic kit wheels which came as a split axle arrangement. Later, Dapol supplied their own metal wheels in addition (and still do) to the Airfix wheels.
It hasn't always been possible to fit Hornby (or Romford/Gibsons) wheels to these kits because originally, they had a non-standard axle length and Hornby were using the standard Romford axle lengths. For many years, Peco supplied replacement one-piece plastic wheels which could be used. I used a few of these and they were actually very good - no wobble issues at all - and you can still get them. I stick with Hornby wheels.
I use Hornby wheels as a matter of course on Dapol wagon kits.
Note that there are two variations of wheels in these kits: originally, when Dapol first took them over, they were supplied with the original Airfix plastic kit wheels which came as a split axle arrangement. Later, Dapol supplied their own metal wheels in addition (and still do) to the Airfix wheels.
It hasn't always been possible to fit Hornby (or Romford/Gibsons) wheels to these kits because originally, they had a non-standard axle length and Hornby were using the standard Romford axle lengths. For many years, Peco supplied replacement one-piece plastic wheels which could be used. I used a few of these and they were actually very good - no wobble issues at all - and you can still get them. I stick with Hornby wheels.
The Airfix two piece plastic wheels are actually better than the Dapol metal ones. The flanges on them are way too small
QUOTE (mr angry @ 30 Mar 2021, 02:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The Airfix two piece plastic wheels are actually better than the Dapol metal ones. The flanges on them are way too small
Which have flanges too small? You don't want the old style large flanges do you ?
Can I suggest you read this http://www.doubleogauge.com/standards/index.htm
Which have flanges too small? You don't want the old style large flanges do you ?
Can I suggest you read this http://www.doubleogauge.com/standards/index.htm
I think he means the Dapol razor blade flanges. I won't have any plastic wheels at all. They're only good for spreading muck around like traction tyres.
QUOTE (hoonsou @ 30 Mar 2021, 22:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think he means the Dapol razor blade flanges...
Quite possible, even though it isn't the overall size (depth of flange) that is the issue, but rather a completely inappropriate shape of both tyre and flange.
Side note: to see what is proven possible in RTR OO for the general market, a look at Heljan's wheelform is recommendable. I don't see complaints online about the trackholding from the significantly shallower flanges of the wheelsets used in their twin bogie traction, and on the two steam models that I have seen. When the Hattons/Heljan Beyer Garratt was under close scrutiny for its mechanism failures, I would have expected any tendency to derail to have been picked up, but nothing of the sort. And it is all gain in appearance, looks very well indeed.
QUOTE (hoonsou @ 30 Mar 2021, 22:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>... I won't have any plastic wheels at all. They're only good for spreading muck around like traction tyres.
Sadly, I anticipate their reappearance - initially on wagons- as the cost pressure begins to really bite in Chinese manufacturing
Quite possible, even though it isn't the overall size (depth of flange) that is the issue, but rather a completely inappropriate shape of both tyre and flange.
Side note: to see what is proven possible in RTR OO for the general market, a look at Heljan's wheelform is recommendable. I don't see complaints online about the trackholding from the significantly shallower flanges of the wheelsets used in their twin bogie traction, and on the two steam models that I have seen. When the Hattons/Heljan Beyer Garratt was under close scrutiny for its mechanism failures, I would have expected any tendency to derail to have been picked up, but nothing of the sort. And it is all gain in appearance, looks very well indeed.
QUOTE (hoonsou @ 30 Mar 2021, 22:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>... I won't have any plastic wheels at all. They're only good for spreading muck around like traction tyres.
Sadly, I anticipate their reappearance - initially on wagons- as the cost pressure begins to really bite in Chinese manufacturing
This correspondence provoked me to dig out a collection of Dapol wagons, including 4 milk tanks, others being grain, grampus and batch of HD ventilated vans fitted to Dapol chassis.
I have to say I have never noticed derailment problems with any of them, but took the opportunity to fit Hornby wheels to two of the milk tanks with a view to giving all 4 a good run up and down and seeing if there was any difference - none. All behaved perfectly (code 100 track).
Back to backs seem to all be 14.4mm, no knife edge flanges. Only odd one had stub axles fitted into plastic sleeve at 14.2mm - oldest one in mauve box. Certainly not disposed to spending cash rewheeling any others. Ex-original Airfix 2/- wagons circa 1960 have all been fitted with metal wheels to improve track cleanliness; I've not built any Dapol kits.
I have to say I have never noticed derailment problems with any of them, but took the opportunity to fit Hornby wheels to two of the milk tanks with a view to giving all 4 a good run up and down and seeing if there was any difference - none. All behaved perfectly (code 100 track).
Back to backs seem to all be 14.4mm, no knife edge flanges. Only odd one had stub axles fitted into plastic sleeve at 14.2mm - oldest one in mauve box. Certainly not disposed to spending cash rewheeling any others. Ex-original Airfix 2/- wagons circa 1960 have all been fitted with metal wheels to improve track cleanliness; I've not built any Dapol kits.
The large flange wheels do, at least, stay on the track
Large flanges do not like Code 75 or smaller codes if modelling old time branch lines that use a smaller rail like Code 55 or 40 in H0 scales
& if rolling stock jumps off track, two possible causes:
1: back to back incorrect and or
2. track is not laid the best
One of my mates had to almost completely relay his Code 100 Peco track when he purchased an Eureka models Beyer Garrat that had very small flanges on pony trucks. Any dips or sharp bends at the rail joins, yep, the loco derailed.
& if rolling stock jumps off track, two possible causes:
1: back to back incorrect and or
2. track is not laid the best
One of my mates had to almost completely relay his Code 100 Peco track when he purchased an Eureka models Beyer Garrat that had very small flanges on pony trucks. Any dips or sharp bends at the rail joins, yep, the loco derailed.
QUOTE (Sol @ 2 Apr 2021, 00:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>...One of my mates had to almost completely relay his Code 100 Peco track when he purchased an Eureka models Beyer Garrat that had very small flanges on pony trucks. Any dips or sharp bends at the rail joins, yep, the loco derailed.
Do you have a measurement for the flange depth used? Also any clues what manufacturing outfit was used?
Heljan flanges are circa 0.6mm deep.
Do you have a measurement for the flange depth used? Also any clues what manufacturing outfit was used?
Heljan flanges are circa 0.6mm deep.
QUOTE (34C @ 2 Apr 2021, 22:11) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Do you have a measurement for the flange depth used? Also any clues what manufacturing outfit was used?
Heljan flanges are circa 0.6mm deep.
No, can't get a measurement but like 99.9% of Australian model locos, all made in China
I was shown a On30 steam loco yesterday with really small wheels on the pony truck & to my eyes, the flanges looked about 1/4 size of the old Lima 00 flanges
Heljan flanges are circa 0.6mm deep.
No, can't get a measurement but like 99.9% of Australian model locos, all made in China
I was shown a On30 steam loco yesterday with really small wheels on the pony truck & to my eyes, the flanges looked about 1/4 size of the old Lima 00 flanges
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Model Railway Forum
A forum community dedicated to Model train and railway owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about collections, displays, models, styles, scales, motors, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Recommended Communities
