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· Just another modeller
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QUOTE (harkins77 @ 16 Jul 2008, 06:30) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi guys I was wondering if someone can give me some help using the bus and droppers wiring system for my new plan.

I'm struggling where to isolate and put power feeds for the layout

Below is the plan I have and I'm wondering if someone could help me please.

http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/uploa...71_60_32319.jpg

Ok so another thing I'm not exactly sure of if I run a bus wire do the 2 ends of each wire i.e. + and - do they connect together to form a loop before going to my powercab system? Or does the end of the + and - wire end just before it meets up with the start of the wiring ?

***Hi

Basically the bus should have the control system roughly central and form a T shape. It should not form a loop.

Wire for bus 32/.2 and droppers appx half that.

Isolation: One siding for programming track, then anywhere you might want to turn off for operational reasons. Apart from that, only absolutely needed where / if needed by the type of pointwork you have chosen.

Its not strictly necessary but you should perhaps plan to make the layout in say 4 isolatable electrical sections. They can be simply geographical ie north/east/west/south or trak related ie station, yard, left half of loops, right half of loops. That will allow you to turn them off in the case of a problem so you can at least localise the area of problem.

regards

Richard
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· Just another modeller
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QUOTE (zmil @ 16 Jul 2008, 18:59) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi All
From what I understand of The "T" shape
pick a central point for the wiring from the power cab and run your Bus wires Left and right from there
to your droppers from the track
Hope this helps
Regards Zmil

***Yep.... spot on

Richard
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· Just another modeller
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Yes, thats exactly right

Richard
 

· Just another modeller
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QUOTE (harkins77 @ 17 Jul 2008, 03:23) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>So with regards to the isolating joiners where would I put each of them then to stop any chance of an overload or is there no need for them?

*** If you mean an overload as in too much current drawn by running loco's then its not an issue. If you mean to isolate the various parts of the layout so you can install local short circuit protection or turn places off at will then that choice is yours.

See post # 3 of this thread.

I'm not sure what else you want in the way of info.

Most of it is simple logic and personal choice of which parts you want to separate electically for your own operational wants and needs. The basics of this are only changed by the nature of the points you choose to use..... and their need for any isolation is in their instructions.

Please ask if there's something I've not covered here, but DO have a go at this yourself first as its important to go through the procedure of thinking it through yourself as thats the only way to learn.

From memory you now use an NCE powerCab???? if so there is a good clear example of breaking a layout into power districts etc in the manual.

Richard
 

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QUOTE (harkins77 @ 21 Jul 2008, 07:26) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ok so before I take the plunge and place my dropper wires to the tracks so then all I need to do is get my bus wire to connect them to. I have done a diagram for where I think I need to place the isolated joiners and also where to wire the dropper wires to.

Please could someone take a look and see if I have got everything covered and tell me if I am going to run into any problems.

Just to cover the basics again.

I'm using the nce powerpro system. The track is Kato Unitrack and the points are self isolating with auto power routing on them.

I have also included the key to the left of the layout to explain what everything stands for as well.

***HI

It looks fine as is

Richard
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QUOTE (harkins77 @ 23 Jul 2008, 01:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>right I've had my first testing of at least 1 line on the layout and apart from a little light cleaning of the track it went very well. I only connected up one of the droppers to the nce system just to test the middle line and am really chuffed with myself as it actually works...lol.

Thanks to all who have helped me so far and I look forward to fitting the bus wires and then having the whole layout to run around on.

***We all knew you'd get it right - only you were doubtful :) :). Be confident and go for it!

Richard
 

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QUOTE (harkins77 @ 23 Jul 2008, 23:02) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Just out of curiosity about the bus wire Richard I have been told that if I don't get the right gauge wire for the main bus wire I could suffer some kind of electrical problem. Now I'm using 7/0.2 wire for the droppers from the tracks and I have taken on board what you have said about what wire I need for the 32/0.2 wire for the bus wire should I have any problems using those 2 kinds of wire together?

***Hi

With a smallish layout you'll be fine. the 32/02 is good for the bus and the 7/02 a wee bit finer than I'd recommend for droppers but keep them less than 300mm length max for each wire and just do it - it'll work fine.

the issue is well misunderstood, especially by those who run off to find charts of wire resistance :) :)

On larger layouts where when the bus is long loading is high voltage will always drop - not just because of normal cable resistance but also because of the inductance caused when two wires under load are close together and carrying a waveform, they create inductance which will add to the cable resistance significantly.

for your layout, it won't be an issue, so just be confident and solder away!!

Richard
 

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QUOTE (harkins77 @ 24 Jul 2008, 02:02) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>ok thanks for that Richard.

For connecting the droppers to the main bus would you recommend wrapping the dropper wires round the main bus wire and then soldering them together or just wrap the droppers onto the bus wire and then wrap it in tape just in case there is a problem later

***Always solder them.

Richard
 

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QUOTE (Brian Considine @ 24 Jul 2008, 21:34) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>They are also available from Maplins, Halfords & Motor Factors/Accesory Outlets. Some people don't like them, but they do carry some quite high currents in automotive use. Like all connectors, they have to be fitted correctly.

*** For heavens sake, Solder them!

You are quite right Brian, they are popular for automotive use by the DIY set and OK for connecting a light in your trailer but have to be fitted correctly.

They CAN be a good connector for the things they were designed for but That also means the right tools and not pliers.

They also need to be the correct connector for the sizes of wire used to be reliable connectors. There are lots of knock off brands and in my experience only the original 3M Scotchlock brand are totally up to scratch.

There are also different spec connectors for stranded or solid wire. The connector will, if not properly chosen and properly crimped either be inadequate or cut into the wire and be resistive. Also if the wrong one is used or if the right tool is not used it will be susceptible to atmospheric action and it will deteriorate with time.

Sorry guys but one thing I do know from troubleshooting many modellers layout problems is that they are rarely as conscientious as they should be with wiring quality and as to the correct fitting, correct tool and correct choice of connector for wire (ie connects wire size A to wire size
....

Those are all things that most modellers will compromise on somewhere so almost never get totally right, which is why taking the time to learn to solder properly and soldering them is the best way to do it in the first place.

Richard
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