DCC & Route setting

5809 Views 20 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Sol, Mar 17, 2007

Sol

Discussion Starter · Mar 8, 2007

In DC/ analogue, route setting can be accomplished with a diode matrix, that is, one pushbutton can set with capacitor dischage, a few points to select a route.

Now in DCC & using decoders on all points so that the normal operating process for the point is from the hand control, can a route be set up in a similar manner, that is a simple code to be input into the controller which represents the route & then be activated from the controller? If this can be done, would it then be easy to change if a new route or even change if the track layout/points was undertaken?

Ron

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Brian Considine

· #2 · Mar 8, 2007

Hi Ron,

It's possible with most of the "high end" systems - although they can achieve this in different ways. Depending on how involved you want to go it may be useful to look at some computer software as well as systems.

I'm sure that someone here has the sort of set up you require. Although I am a committed DCC'er (with HO & LGB) I prefer to stick with relays, switches & so on for points & a certain amount of automation.

Hope this helps.

Oakydoke

· #3 · Mar 8, 2007 (Edited by Moderator)

QUOTE (dbclass50 @ 8 Mar 2007, 14:34) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Ron,

It's possible with most of the "high end" systems - although they can achieve this in different ways. Depending on how involved you want to go it may be useful to look at some computer software as well as systems.
High end? ...not neccesarily. Even the £95 NCE PowerCab has this capability !
I'm not sure if the new Dynamis has route setting though.
Roco do a dedicated point/route setting DCC control panel that works on XpressNet (Lenz etc)
Digitrax, MRC and Lenz offer route setting too.
As dbclass50 say's, it maybe useful to look at a software solution, but that depends on how far you want to go?

Or how about one of these?

Uhlenbrock Digital Mimic panel

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3

wiggy25

· #4 · Mar 8, 2007 (Edited by Moderator)

The Powercab can have 15 routes, these routes can contain a maximum of 8 points.

The only thing I found was if using a seperate power supply with a decoder WITHOUT a CDU then some of the points may not fire, as you take too much out of the power supply, yes you can get a bigger power supply but it does cost a lot of money. My solution was to buy the SMD82 described below.(which saved me having to buy a seperate power supply.)

You can link 1 route to another.

I think I read somewhere that the dynamis can set routes but has a maximum of 4 points per route.

You can always use the teamdigital SMD82 8 way point decoder. This has programmable CV's that can be configured for routes.

The SMD82 is quite a good bit of kit, although not that cheap(£56) but it does have a built in CDU as well, just takes a little while for the CDU to recharge before each point fires.
You can also program it to switch all points to a 'starting' position when first switched on, power is supplied to it from the track bus.

Manual below:-

http://www.teamdigital1.com/smd82%20doc.pdf

Ian

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Sol

Discussion Starter · #5 · Mar 8, 2007

Thanks for all of this info - it is for a modelling friend who is starting up in DCC after being in analogue.
He has no computer so I am the interface.
He has purchased Lenz & is looking at having no panels at all with all control from the hand units if route setting can be done easy. Otherwise he said, he will instal push buttons on the layout at the baseboard edge opposite the points & use his analogue CDU.

Ron

neil_s_wood

· #6 · Mar 8, 2007 (Edited by Moderator)

The Roco MultiMaus can do this and it's a budget system.

However you have to take into consideration the cost of point controllers too.

Doug

· #7 · Mar 8, 2007

QUOTE (Sol @ 8 Mar 2007, 21:53) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks for all of this info - it is for a modelling friend who is starting up in DCC after being in analogue.
He has no computer so I am the interface.
He has purchased Lenz & is looking at having no panels at all with all control from the hand units if route setting can be done easy. Otherwise he said, he will instal push buttons on the layout at the baseboard edge opposite the points & use his analogue CDU.

Ron

Lenz doesn't have route setting. It does however integrate well into a PC based control system that can of course have route setting.

Another way of doing it - if your routes are not too complex - is to use Tillig point motors that can switch other motors up-the-line. Say you have 4 destination sidings, and 3 points leading from a mainline to the 4 sidings (one leading to two branches and then two points leading to the 4 sidings). You can, once the points are wired up, select one of the 4 sidings. This will switch the two up-line points accordingly.

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Sol

Discussion Starter · #8 · Mar 8, 2007

More info to pas on , thanks.
I do know that my friend already has many points & Peco motors from his analogue layout & if he replaces them with other types, then he has many fishing sinkers ( that cost a lot to start with) .
Tillig point motors while they maybe ideal being slow action are about 2.5 times dearer here in Aust than Peco.

It does seem that there is no easy or relatively cost effective way of duplicating analogue diode matrix operation of points if considering to changing using DCC.

Ron

dwb

· #9 · Mar 8, 2007

>It does seem that there is no easy or relatively cost effective way of duplicating analogue diode matrix operation of points if considering to changing using DCC.

You don't have to control your points from DCC if you don't want to. If you are happy to design an analogue diode matrix to control the points, you should be able to work out how to add a separate supply path from a DCC controlled source. I am speculating here, but if a motor coil has one connection from the matrix and another from a DCC source and each path has a diode to prevent current from one flowing back up the chain into the other, then you can have a system operated either way.

The hardest part may be finding a DCC controller which is powerful enough to move a standard Peco motor, but I think Wiggy has answered that already.

or maybe that isn't what you're looking for?

David

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Brian Considine

· #10 · Mar 9, 2007

QUOTE (Doug @ 8 Mar 2007, 22:16) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Another way of doing it - if your routes are not too complex - is to use Tillig point motors that can switch other motors up-the-line. Say you have 4 destination sidings, and 3 points leading from a mainline to the 4 sidings (one leading to two branches and then two points leading to the 4 sidings). You can, once the points are wired up, select one of the 4 sidings. This will switch the two up-line points accordingly.

Never though about that one Doug thanks - you could use that principle for any of the quality motors that have the accessory switches (such as Lemaco/Fulgurex/Tortoise) then.

Brian Considine

· #11 · Mar 9, 2007

QUOTE (Sol @ 8 Mar 2007, 22:36) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Tillig point motors while they maybe ideal being slow action are about 2.5 times dearer here in Aust than Peco.

It does seem that there is no easy or relatively cost effective way of duplicating analogue diode matrix operation of points if considering to changing using DCC.

Ron

Have a look at the Fulgurex, Lemaco or Tortoise - they already have extra accessory switches, so by the time you have added the equivelant to the horrid Peco ones they are about the same cost (well in the UK at least). I'm sure that Neil knows of a good source either in Aus or mail order from Europe.

Hope this helps.

neil_s_wood

· #12 · Mar 9, 2007

QUOTE (Sol @ 9 Mar 2007, 09:36) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Tillig point motors while they maybe ideal being slow action are about 2.5 times dearer here in Aust than Peco.

Ron
Is that from Orient Express? I had a look at their price list and don't remember it being that bad. I will fish it out and have a look.

I'm still pontificating on what point motors to use.

Brian Considine

· #13 · Mar 9, 2007

QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 9 Mar 2007, 07:29) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Is that from Orient Express? I had a look at their price list and don't remember it being that bad. I will fish it out and have a look.

I'm still pontificating on what point motors to use.

"pontificating" - that's a big word for me this early in the morning !

Why not invest in one of two of the candidates, that way you can make the best choice.

Sorry Neil, that's just reminded me to look up the wiring for using SA point motors with you accessory decoder - please refresh my dodgy memory on which one it is.

Sol

Discussion Starter · #14 · Mar 9, 2007

Neil. that Tillig comparison was based on thecost from East Coast Models in Aust who are the importers I think - I had not considered Orient Express.
I can get Tortoise for $26, Peco with accessory switch for about $15.

Certainly I am aware that even with DCC, points can still be operated via a matrix as the analogue method; I was asking if in DCC, there was a simple method using decoders & the DCC hand-controller but info from a few sources, it seems that simplicity is not the order of the day for DCC in this situation.

Ron

Brian Considine

· #15 · Mar 9, 2007

QUOTE (Sol @ 9 Mar 2007, 09:34) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I can get Tortoise for $26, Peco with accessory switch for about $15.

Sorry to but in (again) but IMHO the PL-13 Peco accessory switch is rubbish & only has one set of changeover contacts. If you need more that 1 -set of contacts & use the PL-15 which is OK you are then getting very close to the price of the Fulgarex/Lemaco. (I think the Tortoise is a little more expensive - its also alot bigger than the other two.)

Doug

· #16 · Mar 9, 2007

I haven't found a DCC system with simple point control. The best is to have a dedicated push-button system like my Arnold or the Roco keyboards with one pair of buttons per point. When you are pushing a button to throw a point, you may as well switch a toggle switch - and for that you don't need DCC. You have to have a simple layout or either enjoy controlling everything on a computer or be interested in automation to go the whole hog and have all the points controlled by DCC.

I have a relatively complex layout with DCC, but I have opted for the moment to control the points with toggle switches. I may over time digitize some or all of them, it depends how the layout is used when the track-laying is complete. I have the stationary decoders and I have 3 keyboards for the job, but at the moment, I am preferring to do it by hand.

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Sol

Discussion Starter · #17 · Mar 9, 2007

Agreed that PL13 is limited but I only need one set of contacts because I then opewrate a relay that has 6 changeovers which I can use for switching the frog, Panels. LED's. signalling, etc. The relays are old ex - telecom of many years ago & work quite well on 35Volts DC.

Thanks for all that have offered various ideas & this appears to be at least one situation that DCC does not have a simple replacement technique compared to DC.

Ron

John

· #18 · Mar 9, 2007

Dear Sol,

Did you look at the Roco Route Control?

This really is quite a simple solution which can control up to 32 routes and has the advantage that you can separate the role of signaller from driver.

neil_s_wood

· #19 · Mar 10, 2007

QUOTE (Sol @ 9 Mar 2007, 20:34) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Neil. that Tillig comparison was based on thecost from East Coast Models in Aust who are the importers I think - I had not considered Orient Express.
I can get Tortoise for $26, Peco with accessory switch for about $15.

Certainly I am aware that even with DCC, points can still be operated via a matrix as the analogue method; I was asking if in DCC, there was a simple method using decoders & the DCC hand-controller but info from a few sources, it seems that simplicity is not the order of the day for DCC in this situation.

Ron
Orient Express quoted me $27.50. You could operate the points via the Roco Multi Maus DCC hand held controller.

ironduke

· #20 · Mar 17, 2007

I have a Digitrax Zephyr plugged into my PC via a locobuffer and simple home made accessory decoders and using JMRI software I can set up routes that are controlled by clicking points on a panel that is set up on my computer screen

as well as the point/switch control on my Zephyr. I.E. If I set up a route to be controlled by point 1, just changing point 1 on the zephyr changes all the other points on the route, so long as I've got the PC plugged in and running JMRI.
I'm saving up for an old laptop that will fit better in my layout.

JMRI can be used with most DCC units that have a PC connection including

* Atlas Commander
* C/MRI
* Digitrax
* EasyDCC
* Lenz
* Lionel TMCC
* NCE
* Roco
* SPROG (decoder programming only)
* Uhlenbrock Intellibox
* Wangrow
* Zimo MX-1

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