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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It's probably impossible but is there anyway to get two different loco's with
different decoders to run at exactly the same speed.
My fleischmann twin centre dial goes from 1 to 14 and whichever speed
setting you try there is always a slight difference.
One loco set at 4 the other at 5 and it pulls away, both at 4 and it falls behind.
I sort of need a inbetween setting. Any ideas please.
 

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You can adjust the speed settings in the decoder. The simple way is using three CVs as follows:

Adjust CV2 in each loco until it is just moving at the lowest speed setting.
Adjust CV5 in each loco until all locos move at the same speed at the highest speed setting.
Adjust CV6 in each loco until all locos move at the same speed at the half-way speed setting.

If this does not match the speeds accurately enough, then you could try using the 'speed table' as described in your decoder manual, but this is quite complicated. However some motors may run at slightly different speeds in different directions or when they are warm or cold, so an exact match many not be possible.
 

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QUOTE (Smokeyone @ 22 Nov 2007, 15:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It's probably impossible but is there anyway to get two different loco's with
different decoders to run at exactly the same speed.
My fleischmann twin centre dial goes from 1 to 14 and whichever speed
setting you try there is always a slight difference.
One loco set at 4 the other at 5 and it pulls away, both at 4 and it falls behind.
I sort of need a inbetween setting. Any ideas please.

***Edwins information is correct however a bit of "how to" advice.

Adjust the Vmax and check - then if needed to fine tune relative acceleration fine tune the Vmid - don't worry about the minimum voltage. 66% of the time Vmax adjustment only will do it, and 90% of the time a Vmax +Vmid adjustment will be enough...s

However DO be aware that it will be very much harder for you to do it with the twin centre as speed tables are really designed for 128 step settings (or at a minumum practical level 28) and AFAIK your Twin Centre only has a 14 speed step setting. This is very coarse and really doesn't give good speed control or ideal slow runnignpotential either.

In fact I hate to tell you but some brands of decoders are progressively dropping 14 speed steps totally as time goes on so there WILL come a time very soon when your Fleischmann system will be less and less usable with new decoders.

The FL is now of course also limited in function control vs most true DCC brands.

Sorry to say it but if speed stepping and fine adjustment is important to you I'd strongly suggest its time to think about Ebaying the Fleischmann and looking closely at a new system.

NCE and Digitrax if a full feature entry level is wanted, NCE & Digitrax are still my favourites at mid price and at the top of the cost tree the all singing all dancing ESU is well worth a look.

All are so much more advanced than the FL system that I think you will be VERY happy no matter what brand you shift to! Both ZTC and Lenz are competent but software-wise they are actually quite tired systems now and far from state of the art - and I'm still not totally convinced about the Hornby Elite hence I did not recommend them, but by all means include them in an "Audition" if U like the look of them.

Richard
DCCconcepts
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 22 Nov 2007, 09:11) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>***Edwins information is correct however a bit of "how to" advice.

Adjust the Vmax and check - then if needed to fine tune relative acceleration fine tune the Vmid - don't worry about the minimum voltage. 66% of the time Vmax adjustment only will do it, and 90% of the time a Vmax +Vmid adjustment will be enough...s

However DO be aware that it will be very much harder for you to do it with the twin centre as speed tables are really designed for 128 step settings (or at a minumum practical level 28) and AFAIK your Twin Centre only has a 14 speed step setting. This is very coarse and really doesn't give good speed control or ideal slow runnignpotential either.

In fact I hate to tell you but some brands of decoders are progressively dropping 14 speed steps totally as time goes on so there WILL come a time very soon when your Fleischmann system will be less and less usable with new decoders.

The FL is now of course also limited in function control vs most true DCC brands.

Sorry to say it but if speed stepping and fine adjustment is important to you I'd strongly suggest its time to think about Ebaying the Fleischmann and looking closely at a new system.

NCE and Digitrax if a full feature entry level is wanted, NCE & Digitrax are still my favourites at mid price and at the top of the cost tree the all singing all dancing ESU is well worth a look.

All are so much more advanced than the FL system that I think you will be VERY happy no matter what brand you shift to! Both ZTC and Lenz are competent but software-wise they are actually quite tired systems now and far from state of the art - and I'm still not totally convinced about the Hornby Elite hence I did not recommend them, but by all means include them in an "Audition" if U like the look of them.

Richard
DCCconcepts

Thank you both for your advice. Will give the cv values a try and report back.
Although correct about the limited functions of the twin controller I am going to try
and stick with it. I am only just getting to grips with it and dread the thought of
starting again so will probably be asking further advice soon.
 

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I was thinking it was worth checking Vmin first, partly because if the controller only has 14 steps it would be a shame if several of them do not result in any movement at all!
 

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QUOTE (Edwin @ 22 Nov 2007, 19:26) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I was thinking it was worth checking Vmin first, partly because if the controller only has 14 steps it would be a shame if several of them do not result in any movement at all!

Hi....

I have to correct my earlier comment - I've only ever seen the Twin centre set to 14 but I'm assured the current models do handle 28 and 128 steps if you can find how to change it. Sorry if I misinformed you.

I don't have a manual handy but if you ask I'm almost sure DBckass50/euroscale models will have the data to hand

Regards

Richard
DCCconcepts
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 22 Nov 2007, 10:35) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi....

I have to correct my earlier comment - I've only ever seen the Twin centre set to 14 but I'm assured the current models do handle 28 and 128 steps if you can find how to change it. Sorry if I misinformed you.

I don't have a manual handy but if you ask I'm almost sure DBckass50/euroscale models will have the data to hand

Regards

Richard
DCCconcepts

Thanks for the update, will try the manual first although nigh impossible to understand, or is that just me !
 

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QUOTE (Smokeyone @ 22 Nov 2007, 11:32) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks for the update, will try the manual first although nigh impossible to understand, or is that just me !

No it's not just you - I have tried to read the manual but it's all a bit beyond me, I'm still trying to get on top of my Roco Multimaus - I think I'm getting there. My partner in crime dbclass50 is your man to answer questions on the twincentre as he's had plenty of experience.

Regards
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
QUOTE (BRITHO @ 22 Nov 2007, 11:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>No it's not just you - I have tried to read the manual but it's all a bit beyond me, I'm still trying to get on top of my Roco Multimaus - I think I'm getting there. My partner in crime dbclass50 is your man to answer questions on the twincentre as he's had plenty of experience.

Regards

Have just amazed myself, I changed the steps on the second attempt.
Page 111 & 112 of the manual.
Change the twin centre first then changed two loco's to 28 steps, there is even a 27 step listed
which is a bit odd but expect someone knows the reason why.
Will try out on higher steps next...
Still do not understand the difference between virtual addresses and real addresses though...
 

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QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 22 Nov 2007, 09:11) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>In fact I hate to tell you but some brands of decoders are progressively dropping 14 speed steps totally as time goes on so there WILL come a time very soon when your Fleischmann system will be less and less usable with new decoders.
Are you sure about that? 14 step is the *only* mode that is part of the DCC standard (S-9.2). If it is not implemented then these decoders will never gain a conformance warrant.

Andrew
 

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QUOTE (SPROGman @ 22 Nov 2007, 21:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Are you sure about that? 14 step is the *only* mode that is part of the DCC standard (S-9.2). If it is not implemented then these decoders will never gain a conformance warrant.

Andrew

**Hi Andrew, yes, I'm very sure. Actually when I read S9 it doesn't specify - and RP9-2-2 refers to only 28 and 128.

Personally I think its no loss....

This is a "legacy" issue from early DCC and it is most definately on the outer with many Mfrs.

It is already a fact with some of the decoders out there from US. AFAIK it will cease to be any part of the standards and before too long. There was a thread about this on the WG (or the other "not to be mentioned WG" :) )not all that long ago.

This very like the proposed way that 8 pin may eventually become a legacy issue......

Richard
 

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IMHO the Fleischmann Twin Centre (& to a certain extent the Uhlenbrok Intellibox) will only become obsolete to people who require over 9 functions.

AFAIK the 27 speed steps on the TC is used for the older Fleischmann FMZ system.

Sometimes FLM are regarded as not being at the cutting edge, but the big thing to the credit of Fleischmann is that they support all of their previous products - going way, way back. If you are using FMZ you can still buy decoders & all the other stuff if you want to continue with FMZ. Other manufactures have marketed multi train control systems that are no longer supported.

Personally, I have though a lot about changing my TC's & using the ECOS, but the thing that puts me off if the apparent need to keep downloading upodates - I don;'t have time to keep our own website updated, let alone spending time updating my control system. Maybe the TC's that I use on SL are dated in the eyes of some, but fir the time being I'll stick to them.
 

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QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 22 Nov 2007, 13:07) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>**Hi Andrew, yes, I'm very sure. Actually when I read S9 it doesn't specify - and RP9-2-2 refers to only 28 and 128.
S9.2 specifies the baseline packets (14 speed step only) and, as the standard, is what all comliant decoders must implement in full.
QUOTE Personally I think its no loss....
Oh, I agree, I just think it will cause even more compatibility pain in the short term if, say, the standard were revised to include what is now in the RP. There's very little to be gained in a decoder by dropping support for 14 speed step packets.

Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
QUOTE (SPROGman @ 22 Nov 2007, 15:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>S9.2 specifies the baseline packets (14 speed step only) and, as the standard, is what all comliant decoders must implement in full.

Oh, I agree, I just think it will cause even more compatibility pain in the short term if, say, the standard were revised to include what is now in the RP. There's very little to be gained in a decoder by dropping support for 14 speed step packets.

Andrew

Just an update, I have managed to input 128 steps, seems to be 14, 27, 28 & 128 step settings on the Fleischmann.
My trains are still catching up with each other although less so. So is it the cv settings next !
 
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