[SimonBoulton]

I have a vague memory that we once had a discussion about loco's visiting the DDR from other Eastern Block countries but I can't find it

 

[Greyvoices]

It was as early as post 4 in this topic Simon so go back to the start and pan down to post 4.

It's not a comprehensive listing so can always be added to. Perhaps Probstzella should be mentioned, the border station on the Saaletal route between Leipzig/Berlin and Munchen. The line was electrified by DB from the South right into Probstzella station but to the North the line was not electrified as the DR was strapped for cash. A full range of DR steam and diesels could be seen rubbing shoulders with the usual DB electrics such as 140,151 and 194.

Best regards ............... Greyvoices (alias John)

 

[SimonBoulton]

Many thanks John, I found it and had another read. Interesting how the availability of models has moved on since we discussed that topic, there are a number of PKP and CSD models available now with Piko leading the charge.

The mention of PKP loco's working through to Berlin Hbf (now Berlin Ost Bahnhof) reminded me of an interesting train I came across a while ago, it was a service from Moscow to Paris via Warsaw and Berlin and at least on some occasions, was worked all the way to Berlin by a Polish loco, off the top of my head, I believe it was an sP45 or SP46 Diesel? The coach composition was very interesting too with a combination of Soviet sleeper cars and DR coaches, including Mitropa ones and also coaches from the PKP and SNCF. The whole composition would be too much for most layouts but a truncated version very interesting. The EK DVD on interzonal zugs has some film of it.
Best wishes,
Simon

John, my local Tesco store stocks Polish Plum butter, thanks for introducing me to that

 

[SimonBoulton]

Whilst browsing Ebay recently, I discovered a number of diecast and plastic models of East German IFA W50 lorries in 1/87 scale. They're only a few Euro and are mostly decorated for beer brands. I got one and it matches up well with my scale version. Thinking that with a bit of a repaint and maybe some matt varnish or weather it would be quite acceptable.

Thought I'd share in case other might find them of interest

 

[SimonBoulton]

Thought of a question this morning whilst trying to get some work done

My interest tends towards branch lines and secondary routes, the nebenbahn. It's fairly easy to find out information on how British branch lines were operated but this information is harder to come by for those of us who's German isn't so good.

My query this morning was, did the DR attach through coaches to branch lone trains or did the passengers always have to change trains at the junction? I know the DB did work through coaches at least up to the 1980's. Also are there examples of parts of express trains that worked through on to secondary routes?

As an aside, I got a DVD of DR steam in the 1970's not too long ago. It is film taken by British visitors and has an English commentary. There were a couple of scenes of Reko BR58's, as modelled by Gutzold, working trains of 3 and 4 of the short 2 or 3 axle Reko coaches, very nice prototype short train.

 

[Greyvoices]

An interesting question Simon. I resisted following this up with my own post because I am well aware of how often erroneous statements are quoted as fact ............ I think the modern term is false news. So, with that out of the way what I write next will just be from my experience.

There are three ways open to me to check branch line operations on DR, say Epoch III & IV.

1. Search my memory and look through my photographs and notebooks.
2. Look through all DR magazines and books.
3. Carefully read through old DR timetable books (fahrplan) and route leaflets.

Now my memory ain't what it was but I cannot remember seeing anything else than branch trains starting and ending at the extremities of the branch or running through to the nearest large town or regional centre. I never witnessed any through coaches being added to express services nor two branch trains joining up at a junction station to go forward as a larger train. Remember - - that's not to say it never happened, just that I never saw it.

Looking through my books I sort of get the impression that some services around Gera may have been augmented but the text is unclear on the matter. It just looks to me in photos that the train consist looks odd. So here again, nothing is definitive.

Timetables are a better route to go but it can be a bit costly to buy old DR timetable books. I have three of them going back to the seventies so all Epoch IV. You can trace trains on branch lines and see if they continue onto more major routes. Where the connection is made wit express services then these quite evidently show if passengers are required to leave one train and take a seat in another. Timetables can be found for sale on ebay as here or here for eaxample.

I would be checking my own timetables right now but I'm in Bamberg for a few days so that must wait.

Finally .......... in contrast I can remember many instances of through coaches being shunted around (complete with passengers) on DB. It could take a long time to tack two trains together ........... in fact in Singen I had enough time to leave my portion, wander around the small loco depot, buy a sausage and a beer and still have enough time to rejoin the shunted train. Happy days.

Anyway Simon, I hope this helps.

Best regards ................. Greyvoices (alias John)

 

[SimonBoulton]

Hi John,
Many thanks for the reply, that's a good idea about the time tables. I've got a couple of books on particular branch lines so will have a look at them as they might have examples in them too.

My research so far has been looking at assorted pics and in magazines and books but like you, I've never seen any concrete examples. Is interesting that DB definitely did add through coaches but would appear that the DR didn't.

How was the toy fair?
Best wishes,
Simon

 

[Greyvoices]

Not been there yet. Tomorrow, Friday is the day. I want to have a good look at the reissued Reko BR 03.

Best regards........ Greyvoices (alias John)

 

[SimonBoulton]

Got a new book yesterday, Das war die Deutsche Reichsbahn from Geramond. Has some excellent pictures and very interesting.

One of the pics shows some Y wagen coaches in the later Green and Cream colour scheme. If I’ve read the caption correctly, the picture dates from 1982 and that’s the earliest I’ve seen coaches in that colour scheme.

 

[SimonBoulton]

Spent a very pleasant weekend in Dresden. The main reason being that I wanted to visit the model railway exhibition at the messe. This was a good, well run club event. Not as big as the Leipzig show in terms of traders but the layouts were nearly as numerous and generally of a high quality. The Rübelandbahn layout was excellent, as well as one based on a real country junction.

Trade wise, the big traders were missing, except for Miba and Tillig. Spielemax has a stand though and one of the benefits of their trade stand is that they often have special offers, especially on their exclusive editions. Picked up this set of two double deckers in experimental livery for €65. Interestingly, the Rev date is 1979. I have a pic in a magazine of a driving control doubldecker coach with similar doors from 1984, the coaches behind it still being in green.

https://www.spielemax.de/modellbahn/exklusi...-iv-191309.html

Whilst in Dresden, I took advantage of the Saxony ticket to travel from Bad Schandau to Sebnitz. What a great journey, crossing the railway bridge shared with cars and then up into the hills. Whilst there has obviously been a lot of rationalisation over the years, most of the original stations and platforms have survived. Porschdorf was interesting because of the big disused plastics factory opposite the station, will check if that is right as could be the next station.

I also did Pirna to Neustadt too, normally this train goes to Sebnitz and you can do a big round trip but was bus replacement from Neustadt and didn’t fancy that. In the evening, I managed to visit all three of Meissen’s stations. Two are very boring modern structures but the actual Meissen station is very interesting, lots of prewar features and the same type of ceramic tiles on the U-bahn at Alexanderplatz. Made In Meissen?
I don’t know but guess the town was probably pretty unscathed by WW2 and is very pretty. Railway wise, it is interesting because it is the end of the S-bahn line from Bad Schandau. I am interested in how freight was dealt with and how long it has been an S-bahn line.

Will cover Sunday’s trips later

 

[Pantograf]

QUOTE (SimonBoulton @ 20 Feb 2020, 10:42) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Whilst in Dresden, I took advantage of the Saxony ticket to travel from Bad Schandau to Sebnitz.
When in Sebnitz, did you get a chance to walk over to the Tillig factory, shop and museum? It's not very big but definitely worth a visit and occasionally, you can catch some great deals in their shop and the one right across the small platz.

 

[SimonBoulton]

Hi Pantograph,
Yes, I went to the shop but the museum looked closed, I think because they had a stand at the show in Dresden that weekend. It was one of those situation were I had about 35 minutes before the train back or else spending 2.5 hours in Sebnitz and there didn't seem a lot to do. I didn't realise but should have guessed, that Herr Tillig is the owner of Modellbahn Sebnitz, the model shop does quite a few exclusive models of DR subjects and also stock a good selection of MBT models, they are not easy to find. Incidently, one of the interesting things about the train from Bad Schandau to Sebnitz was that it had a Czech crew and started and finished its journey in the Czech republic too. I have developed quite an interest in CSD Diesels and cross border workings into the DDR

 

[SimonBoulton]

I stopped off in Pirna on my way back to Dresden, it is a very nice little town and by chance the town museum had an exhibition about the railways in the area and model railways. Part of this included a very nice HO model layout of one of the branch lines that used to run from Pirna. This had a lot of rail served industries and a couple of single platform halts.

On Sunday I travelled to Chemnitz and took the branch up to Cranzahl. More very spectacular scenery and although this branch has seen more modernisation than the one to Sebnitz, there was still a lot of old days atmosphere and most of the station buildings have been retained. Sadly I didn’t have time to travel on the narrow gauge line as I had to get back to Berlin. The line I took to get from Chemnitz to Leipzig was hauled by a diesel of the Siemens ER20 family with former Halberstadt coaches, been a while since I’d travelled in a coach with a corridor and compartments!

Was a great trip and gave me plenty of inspiration and ideas

 

[Greyvoices]

I recently posted a reply to Richard Johnson's post about DCC Concepts and their adjustments due to the virus : Richard's coronavirus thread in which I said that self isolation gave me an opportunity to scan old railway slides. I have been meaning to do that for years but somehow other things got in the way. I have not looked at my collection for a long time so this is not just a trip down memory lane but there are some surprises because I had forgotten that I had photographed this or that.

So ........ here is the first scanned image:

03 2265-1 at Dresden Neustadt

I post here on this thread because it is a previously unpublished photo taken during the DDR zeit so is totally relevant. The quality could be better but what the hay. I have now a major task on my hands as to how I should organise what I scan. Should keep me ant the missus from getting on each other's nerves as we rattle around with only ourselves for company.

........... and the second scan:

An articulated Dosto unit crossing the Elbebrucke en route between Dresden Neustadt and Dresden HBf. The pushing loco is 242 elok.

Best regards ..................... Greyvoices (alias John)

 

[Greyvoices]

Piko made a wonderful model of the Doppelstock-Gliederzug featured in that last photo going across the Elbbrucke (I think that written like that it loses the second "e"). I bought a couple of the Piko rakes when I was feeling a bit flush so that must have been a few years ago now. I have found an empty box so the carriages themselves are stuck in a stock-box somewhere. The other set is still in it's box but packed away somewhere in a removal carton. I am so dis-organised.

Anyway ..... I photographed the box which has a deal of information on it:

Best regards ................. Greyvoices (alias John)

 

[Pantograf]

That looks like the Marienbrücke to me, the Elbe bridge is for the Autobahn. When I was a kid, we used to take the green 4-car bilevel trains built by Waggonbau Görlitz from Dresden to Bad Schandau or Schona, cross the river (which is also the border) by ferry to go hiking in the Hrensko area (Böhmische Schweiz). Funny thing is, I don't remember ever riding on the Doppelstock-Gliederzug.

 

[Greyvoices]

Thank you for that input Pantograf. I do not like inaccuracies so your correction is welcome.

............. but now I have to contact the "Tourist Verlag" and alert them to the fact that a book they published in 1988 contains a misleading map:

Map on page 158

Accompanying text on page 158

I'm sorry if I seem a tad pedantic but my reliance on a quick glance at a map proves that you should always double check by reading the textual description. Obviously the map maker used the term, "Elbbrücke" because it was easier to fit in the short distance between the two stations. I am very concerned that anything that I write is accurate because it is so easy for false information to gain traction on the internet ........... or as we see in this instance .......... trip up the unwary when referring to maps published in books. I don't suppose that writing to the publisher will be of any use because VEB Tourist Verlag ceased to be in 1994.

So I leave you with another scan of the Marienbrücke:

What an interesting rake of coaches.

Best regards ................. Greyvoices (alias John)

 

[Babz]

John Good Morning I hope you like this i noticed it more because it said about your layout

The Class 05
The fastest steam locomotive in the world
In the early s, the rail zeppelin reached a new record for rail vehicles and thus gave Deutsche Reichsbahn the reason to develop faster steam locomotives. In 1932, planning began to procurement a 2 'C2' h3 locomotive, pulling a 250 t train at 150 km / h in the plane and over power reserves up to a top speed of 175 km / h should have.

On 8. March (05 001) and 17. May 1935 (05 002), the two streamline express train locomotive of the series 05 were delivered to Deutsche Reichsbahn. The locomotive 05 001 was transferred to Nuremberg after the first test trips, where it was shown from 14. July to October 1935, 13. as part of the anniversary celebrations for the centennial existence of the German railways. Machine 05 002 was intended as a measuring locomotive. On May 1936, 11., it reached a record speed for steam locomotives between Hamburg and Berlin at 200,3 km / h. With the Lok 05 003, a third engine of this series was soon followed with front cab and coal dust firing, which did not prove itself. After the locomotive was returned to the manufacturer, Borsig converted this locomotive in 1944 into a normal version and delivered it to the Reichsbahn in February 1945 After the war, the three locomotives were changed and ran on the F-Zug network of the Bundesbahn.

Today the machine 05 001 stands in the Nuremberg Transport Museum. The lengthy development history of these locomotives, their construction at Borsig and their testing on the track, record driving and operation are documented in a generously illustrated volume with many unknown details. Factory photos and press images, design sketches and measuring car charts do not take into account any important aspect of these legendary machines. A lively text lets you participate in the exciting race for the "Blue Band der Rail" in the 1930 s.

The exciting series book by Dr. Alfred Gottwaldt (1949-2015) is still available. For more information, visit this link: https://www.ekshop.de/buecher/baureihen-bib...aureihe-05.html
Our Borsig ad from 1935 shows the 05 001 (EK archiv

The Image on facebook page mentions Hennigsdorf

 

[Greyvoices]

Hi Babs,

Thanks for that post which certainly had my old brainbox ticking. I thought back to a visit to the transport museum in Nuremberg in 1988 so hunted out the following:

You also prompted me to buy a book about the Class 05 and I found this being offered from Momox in Berlin (quite cheap and post free to UK !!!):

The DRG exploration of the potential of 4-6-4 wheel arrangement led to the experiment with 05 003 with a driving cab over the front buffer beam and 61 001, a 4-6-4 tank locomotive and then 60 002, a 4-6-6 tank derivative which were streamlined with a matching set of coaches. What might have happened to these developments if the war had not intervened is open to conjecture but post war Europe was a different place with a need to transport vast numbers of people over severely damaged thus speed restricted routes. Locomotives were de-streamlined and the simple pacific design of 4-6-2 proved adequate for inter-city train haulage.

If you are looking for English language printed matter then the German Railway Society pamphlets 4, 10 and 11 are of particular interest.

The decision to remain with the pacific locomotive configuration is fully explored in David Maidment's "The German Pacific Locomotive - Its design and development" which is published by Pen & Sword books ......... but this book can also be found with other retailers.

The final twist was when DR "re-purposed" 61 001 to develop that fine locomotive 02 201 which is today the fasted surviving steam engine in the world.

There is so much to learn here and thank you Babs for reminding us about this fascinating time in German locomotive history.

Best regards ................... Greyvoices (alias John)

 

[SimonBoulton]

I was recently talking to a friend about how Gorlitz Bahnhof is one of my favourite stations and still retains a lot of atmosphere. It has actually been used for as a location in a number of films in the last few years. I then googled it to find some images, you can imagine my dismay when this brought up an artists impression of the 'modernised' Gorlitz bahnof.
Was going to say go and see it whilst you still have the chance but not exactly possible at the moment for most of us....stay safe everyone,
Simon