[Greyvoices]

Oh no Simon, not Gorlitz Hbf.

I have happy memories of this station:

In 1990 I visited Zittau and as the day grew late I thought that I should find an hotel. After the 4th hotel proved to be fully booked I thought it best to hotfoot it to Gorlitz and try my luck there. On arrival at the Hbf it was very late and asking for help from station staff they informed me that every hotel was fully booked for miles (kilometres) around because of the influx of Wessies who had been drafted in to help with the merging of East and West following the wall coming down the previous year, the Treuhand. I was told that I had two alternatives, to catch the overnight train to Frankfurt am Main or perhaps I would consider applying to the Banhofsmission for assistance. I chose the Bahnhofsmission and they offered me a camp bed in a room on the platform which I readily accepted. I even had a shower in the morning and a free cup of coffee ............ of course I gave a suitable donation for my nights lodging.

In 2000 I once again made the trip from Zittau to Gorlitz on that odd route that crosses and recrosses the river that separates Germany from Poland. We had a border guard on the train who casually watched proceedings when we halted in a Polish station. This was much earlier in the day so there was an opportunity to observe train movements in Gorlitz and a highlight was the arrival of a passenger train from Dresden hauled by a pair of Class 219 diesels. This is the only time i ever saw two 219's in multiple and I suspect it was a balancing working after one of the locos had received maintenance attention somewhere else; geting back to Gorlitz attached to a regular passenger train in preference to a light engine movement.

I took photographs of this but in slide format. I am currently scanning in all my slides but not yet reached Gorlitz in the year 2000. Scanning has been accelerated by lockdown but even at the current rate I fear that the man with the scythe and sand timer with come for me before all slides and negatives are digitised.

Best regards ............... Greyvoices (alias John)

 

[Babz]

Hi John nice to see you back on the forum. Miss your Posts. Babs

 

[SimonBoulton]

Very interesting John, did they use the same route that crossed into Poland prior to 1989?

I know the BR119/BR219's were used in multiple when first introduced due to reliability issues but you're probably right that it was a loco movement. I first went to Gorlitz to see the last of the BR202 hauled passenger trains. The train consisted of one coach and the loco, was on its way to Zittau but it was late in the day and I had to get back to Berlin so just took a couple of pics before it departed.

The late 90's and early 2000's were an amazing time for all the loco hauled trains still around,
Best wishes,
Simon

 

[SimonBoulton]

At the weekend I was watching a DVD about the BR119/BR219 diesels. I was reminded of John's post about the double heading of these locos because there was a piece of footage that involved two loco's hauling a three coach train. At each end was one of the centre door Halberstadt coaches, one green, one green and cream, and the centre coach was a 1st/2nd Y wagen in green and cream.

This has made me wonder about train heating as I seem to recall that the Halberstadt coaches had electric heating whereas the Y wagen would have been steam heated I'd have thought given their age.

 

[Alex Hempel]

According to Wikipedia, the DR UIC-Y carriages had both steam and electric heating. The later Halberstädter carriages only had electric heating.

 

[SimonBoulton]

Cheers Alex, that's interesting and good to know

 

[SimonBoulton]

Found out so info tonight that I thought might be of interest. The UIC-Y-Wagen comprised three different variants, the B, Y and Y/B-70. I’ve found it a bit confusing what the differences between them were so the following info from a German forum is quite useful,

“The Y / B 70 are easiest to recognize because they no longer have the large ventilation grille in the roof. The B could be recognized by the straight ends of the car, but this is often not so easy on pictures. The first one can be seen quite clearly as a Y (door at an angle, the grille above)”

The type B was introduced in 1962, the Y in 1966 and Y/B in 1969.

So it seems like the type B has the grill on the roof and straight ends, the Y has the grill and angled doors and the Y/B no grills.

So in terms of HO models, Sachsenmodelle and Roco have produced the Y/B, Sachsenmodelle also made the type B but they were 1:100 in length. Rivarossi now make a scale length version. Tilling would appear to now produce the Y type too

 

[SimonBoulton]

For anyone who might be interested, Piko have released some more info and pics for their forthcoming DR Y-wagen

https://www.piko.de/DE/index.php/de/piko-ne...x4f1As922uCZEE4

 

[SimonBoulton]

I found the answer to somethings that’s confused me for a while. That being the numbering of the 03.10 loco’s. I thought that the numbers would start 03.10 but looking at pics, that clearly wasn’t the case. Anyways, what I learnt was that it’s all to do with oil firing, the first number would become a zero. So 03.1058 became 03.0058

 

[Boslandew]

Some of us on MRF are interested in the railways of the former East Germany, the post war Deutsche Demokratische Republik or DDR. Many were drawn to the Deutsche Reichsbahn (DR) of East Germany because steam working continued (officially) until 1988, fully 20 years after the demise of steam on British Railways and 10 years after the end of West German steam. What we found in the East was a preserved railway system little changed from before WWII. An effort had been made to electrify certain routes coupled with a gradual move to diesel traction but steam persisted because of the prohibitive cost of oil and the parlous economic situation of the DDR. Much of the industrial base in the East had been badly damaged in the war and much of what was left was expropriated by Russia as war reparation. In fact, many electric locomotives and many kilometres of overhead line equipment was moved to the USSR.

Now, some twenty years after the end of the Deutsche Reichsbahn and its merger with DB (Deutsche Bundesbahn of West Germany) following the collapse of the Iron Curtain (over 24 years ago), there are many who still feel nostalgia for the old system. Modelling for us is a way of recapturing some of that lost atmosphere and this thread is intended as a place of discussion, both the prototype and the models needed to depict the DR with some degree of accuracy.

A BR 242 ELok hauling a rake of double decker coaches enters Dresden Hauptbanhof high level platforms. I took this photograph on Kodachrome 64.

I hope that this thread proves to be pleasurable and informative.

Best regards ..................... Greyvoices (alias John)

 

[Boslandew]

I travelled once from Vienna to Berlin on DR back in about 1978. As I recall the loco was a Ludmilla (or variant). Border crossings, into East Germany and into West Berlin were lengthy and intimidating, dogs, Grepo's with guns, at Greibnitzsee (entry point into W Berlin there were guard towers, searchlights, the lot.

What interested me was that the train never stopped. The track was kept clear for it the entire route. Even when the train slowed at one intermediate station and had to change tracks twice, there was no pause. presumably to makes sure no-one climbed aboard unnoticed.

 

[SimonBoulton]

I travelled once from Vienna to Berlin on DR back in about 1978. As I recall the loco was a Ludmilla (or variant). Border crossings, into East Germany and into West Berlin were lengthy and intimidating, dogs, Grepo's with guns, at Greibnitzsee (entry point into W Berlin there were guard towers, searchlights, the lot.

What interested me was that the train never stopped. The track was kept clear for it the entire route. Even when the train slowed at one intermediate station and had to change tracks twice, there was no pause. presumably to makes sure no-one climbed aboard unnoticed.

That’s very interesting, was the train via Prague and/or the Vindobona? That train became loco hauled from 1979.

 

[Boslandew]

Hi Simon My dear lady wife who has cornered the family memory cells tells me I'm confusing two events. I'm hazy about the dates but the trip I'm thinking of was pre-1989 because of the wall crossings.

I had a Europe-wide ticket and I eventually ended up in Vienna. That was the beauty of the ticket, you just jumped on any train. From Vienna I travelled to Berlin to meet my German wife for family party. I think I may have paid a supplement to travel through Czecho-slovakia and East Germany

As I remember it the train routed towards Prague but then bypassed it, presumably to ensure that it wouldn't have to stop anywhere. My memories are of passing through various stations and seeing some very rundown loco's and stock. Even through the windows you got the general impression of drabness and lack of colour. As I said, border crossings were intimidating, the full rigmarole of humourless officials in uniform ordering you, (none of this please and thank you nonsense ) to stand up so that you could be compared with your passport photos or at a whim they would search someones baggage in detail. To say nothing of large, aggressive dogs. Welcome to the Communist East!!!

Overall a railway enthusiasts delight, lots of trains, lots of standing on platforms and bridges watching trains go by. The beer wasn't bad either.

 

[SimonBoulton]

Hi Simon My dear lady wife who has cornered the family memory cells tells me I'm confusing two events. I'm hazy about the dates but the trip I'm thinking of was pre-1989 because of the wall crossings.

I had a Europe-wide ticket and I eventually ended up in Vienna. That was the beauty of the ticket, you just jumped on any train. From Vienna I travelled to Berlin to meet my German wife for family party. I think I may have paid a supplement to travel through Czecho-slovakia and East Germany

As I remember it the train routed towards Prague but then bypassed it, presumably to ensure that it wouldn't have to stop anywhere. My memories are of passing through various stations and seeing some very rundown loco's and stock. Even through the windows you got the general impression of drabness and lack of colour. As I said, border crossings were intimidating, the full rigmarole of humourless officials in uniform ordering you, (none of this please and thank you nonsense ) to stand up so that you could be compared with your passport photos or at a whim they would search someones baggage in detail. To say nothing of large, aggressive dogs. Welcome to the Communist East!!!

Overall a railway enthusiasts delight, lots of trains, lots of standing on platforms and bridges watching trains go by. The beer wasn't bad either.

Ahh, okay, so you travelled form Vienna to West Berlin without stopping in Czechoslovakia or East Germany?

 

[Boslandew]

Crikey, you've got the old memory cells in overtime here. On reflection, I think we must have stopped entering Czechoslovakia and leaving East Germany at Griebnitzsee into West Berlin but as I recall there were no other stops and certainly none in East Germany, the route was cleared for our train the entire way.

 

[Greyvoices]

Hi Simon My dear lady wife who has cornered the family memory cells tells me I'm confusing two events. I'm hazy about the dates but the trip I'm thinking of was pre-1989 because of the wall crossings.

I have taken a while to think about your anecdote Andrew because at first glance I suspected that your wife's concern was well founded. The routing between Vienna and Berlin would have been somewhat tortuous to have accessed Berlin via the Potsdam <> Wannsee border at Greibnizsee; the usual route for services that passed through Prague and Dresden would have been to access Berlin on the eastern side via Berlin Lichtenberg or Ost Bahnhof.

To check that I was correct I looked up possible services in my relevant DR Kursbuchs 1980 and 1987/88 plus Thomas Cook European Timetables for 1969 and1988. In all these timetables the direct Vienna <> Berlin trains ran to/from Berlin Ost and did not enter West Berlin.

I didn't give up there because your memory of border checks was obviously real so I looked for a possible service that you might be remembering. What about the Munich/Stuttgart <> Berlin (via Zoo) service that is mentioned in all my timetables. I have been on that service and I remember it being advertised as non-stop between Probstzella and Berlin Zoo but I alighted at Halle.

I hope that I have not muddied the water too much Andrew.

Best regards ............................ Greyvoices (alias John)

 

[Boslandew]

Hullo John Many thanks for the info and research. (Its David, by the way, don't know where the Andrew came from.)

Looking back I think I must be confusing several trips. I travelled twice in Germany on GermanRail go-anywhere tickets in Soviet days. On one of them I travelled to Berlin by train and can remember my son meeting me at Wannsee. He would have been about 14 which would have made in 1983/4. That may have been the trip from which I remembered the border crossings and not stopping. It may also have been the Munich/Berlin route that you mention. I visited many parts of Germany in a two week trip. I also travelled to Berlin with my wife and son under similar conditions arriving in Greibnitzee at night. (Spooky, guards, dogs, searchlights, grim-faced Grepo's)

I traveled once on a EuroRail ticket. With a rucksack and tent it was a very cheap way to see a lot of Europe. I'm beginning think that that must have been the Vienna-Berlin trip and must have been early nineties because I went on from Berlin to Stralsund and Rugen without hindrance. What puzzles me is your reference to the route because I have no recollection of ever arriving in Berlin other than via Greibnitzee/Wannsee. I do recall leaving for Stralsund from Lichtenberg. However, I suspect your research is far more reliable than my memory.

I have spent many happy hours in Berlin visiting the various rail locations. Lichtenberg, where you can watch endless shunting taking place almost alongside the platform plus arrivals and departures, is a favourite. Incidentally, and non-railway, my wife and I drove into Berlin an hour after the wall was opened. We couldn't believe it when we arrived at my brother-in-laws house to be told, "The Wall is open!"

Thanks again for the info

David

 

[Greyvoices]

Hullo John Many thanks for the info and research. (Its David, by the way, don't know where the Andrew came from.)

David

Apologies. My mild dyslexia came up with Andrew from your MRF handle.

You have wonderful memories which don't lose anything by being, sometimes, intermingled. I am similarly afflicted but the inner nerd gets a lot of pleasure in researching my confused recollections

Best regards ............... Greyvoices (alias John)

 

[SimonBoulton]

The announcement that we will see some new CSD coaches this year has got me thinking about workings between the DDR and Czechoslovakia, I wonder if anyone has access to the timetables for Zittau or Bad Schandau between 1975-1985? I’m aware of the named international trains but am curious about other passenger workings

 

[Greyvoices]

I have a DR Kursbuch for 1980 in my collection which fits your timeframe Simon.

I could trawl through, in fact I probably will but it may be a good opportunity for you to visit me and research it yourself ....... Covid permitting.

Best regards ............... Greyvoices (alias John)