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hi just wondering if anyone could tell me if ther is anywere cheeper than hornby for distilled water at £5.92 per litre its got to be cheeper somewere. cananyone help please thanks shaun
 

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I agree the distilled water is very expensive, but my Live Steam locos are precious to me. I would rather use the "authorized" water in case anything goes wrong with an inferior product and then I would have no come back. I would also loose my pride and joys.
 

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If your really that concerned about the cost ....your local chemist will prob'ly sell you a large container of "Distilled Water" ....but beware,there's every chance that it could just be "purified water" [read the label first].
I've run both my Live Steam A4 & A3 on "Purified" occassionally ....ie,when I have run out of "distilled" water and I have'nt had time/oportunity to buy some Honby "distilled" ....but I'm in total agreement with "most happyfella"
And fhs ....dont be tempted to use battery top water [ aka ... "de-ionised" water ] ..... that will damage your loco.

T.
 

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I would be very careful about using 'purified water'. One of my jobs in the pharmeceutical industry was to make it in the 1000s of litres. It's other name was deionised water.
 

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I believe that the ownership of a still is illegal in the UK without a Customs and Excise (or whatever they call themselves today) Licence. I can recall that they even checked the distilled water still in my old school's chemistry lab once or twice a year.

I have successfully distilled water by producing steam in a wall-paper stripper boiler and condensing it in a large roasting tray floating in a kitchen sink. Took about 20min to get a litre of water for my live steam model. Next time I'll take some pictures and post them.

Regards,
John Webb
 

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It is possible to source bidistilled water elsewhere much cheaper.

As I live in Athens, I asked the Hornby importers for distilled water and they told me to use de-ionised. Unbelievably poor advice.

After extensive searching around the city I found an outlet that sells 5 litres of bidistilled water for €10 (£9 ish). This must also be possible in the U.K.

A quick search on google revealed:

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/1L-Feser-Aq...uctive-01-S-cm)

http://www.acornwater.com/showprod.php?id=51#top
 

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QUOTE (Charley Farley Trelawney @ 8 Jan 2009, 16:58) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Would not an automotive shop selling distilled water in 5 litre containers be acceptable? After all it is for batteries. Agree on the deionised, its something quite different.

CFT

I have not found an automotive shop selling anything for the last few years but deionised water - it's cheaper to produce and quite adequate for batteries but not for the live steamers! So approach water in such shops with caution.

Regards,
John Webb
 

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QUOTE (John Webb @ 9 Jan 2009, 11:42) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I have not found an automotive shop selling anything for the last few years but deionised water - it's cheaper to produce and quite adequate for batteries but not for the live steamers! So approach water in such shops with caution.

Regards,
John Webb

Fair point John; the local battery centre in in Somerset are in fact selling 5 litres of genuine distilled for £4.00. Your point however is a good one and well worth checking before buying the incorrect water.

Charley
 

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I use filtered rain water for my 16mm live steam. This is naturally 'soft', so is much better than tap water in a hard water area, such as London, where I live. It's cheaper than distilled water...

Mike D
 

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I could buy quite a bit of Hornby's water for the cost of popping down to Somerset for 5 litres! I'll just keep boiling up my own 'as needed', I think.

Regards,
John
 

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Hi

I work in the water treatment [dare I say "industry"?].

Recently a customer asked if we could supply distilled water.

In the end I managed to source 25L for approx £20 cost to us.

This was buying in, and the guy I bought it off makes test kits [I assume he may actually use the water] - anyway, he must be buying it in for say £10 per 25L.

So, in summary if anyone wants some I could source, or maybe you go direct, or I can put the thumb screws on and find out the actual manufacturer !

Regards

Nick
 

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QUOTE (Brian Considine @ 9 Jan 2009, 15:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Probably no good but how about "bottled" water - not too bad a price if bought in bulk from Tesda's.
Definitely not! Most such waters specifically have mineral content - which will deposit on boiling.

As Mike D posted earlier; provided rainwater can be collected cleanly that's the way to go, it is large scale, naturally distilled water. If in any doubt boil some off in a glass beaker, if there is no deposit, you are OK.
 

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Hello! I am new here, this being my first post. Am active in another forum, and sought variety. Have been working on a 1-1/2" scale Northern locomotive here in the Missouri, Ozarks, USA, for 6 years. However, this thread is not appropriate for further such discussion.

Distilled water is in my opinion the best water to use in our boilers, as it contains no dissolved minerals to form deposits within them. However, it invariably DOES contain dissolved carbon dioxide, which makes it's Ph about 5.5 to 6.0, which further means, use of such water promotes corrosion. Therefore, distilled water must have it's Ph adjusted upward, to at least 8.0 or more. This is easily done by simply dissolving a basic chemical in the water, such as potassium carbonate. Sodium bicarbonate, baking soda to our ladies in the kitchen, is adequate, but will only raise the Ph to a little under 8.0.

Cost of distilled water is fairly high. So, why not build a still? I have been making my own distilled water for several years, at about 1/3 the local cost to purchase it, which currently is about $0.80 per gallon.

Not knowing how interested members might be in building a still, I will await comment. However, please do not hesitate to ask! I am a scrounger, and as such, found that building my still was very reasonable to do.

Thank you for reading!

imp

PS: Anyone interested in my locomotive may freely inquire about it, also!
 

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Hi again, if you've seen my response under the 'Welcome' section.

Just to explain briefly, this topic on distilled water has been mostly about the Hornby 1:76 (4mm/ft - the British parallel to the more usual HO scale at 3.5mm/ft) electrically powered live steamers. These use about 25ml of distilled water in a small boiler in the tender of the loco - this is heated electrically at between 12 and 15volts at up to 6 amps to generate steam. A servo mechanisim in the loco, linked to a steam valve and controlled by signals sent through the track, open and shuts the valve and also reverses the direction the loco can move.

The loco responds in a completely different way to the electric motor powered models much more common in this scale. It's quite a remarkable system and you can find out more about it at www.hornby.com.

But Hornby are very specific about using only distilled water and in particular not to use the more common deionised water that's sold for steam irons, car battery topping up etc. Apparently it still contains enough chemicals to affect the long-term life of the boiler, which I think is silver soldered rather than brazed.

However, Hornby charge around £6 for a 1 litre bottle of distilled water, so on this topic we've been discussing other sources and means of getting distilled water at a lower cost.

By the way, we are not allowed to run an unlicenced still in the United Kingdom, even for distilling water. At my old school we had to have a licence for the chemistry lab still, and the 'Customs and Excise' people checked it every year to ensure we were only using it for water and not something more potent!

Regards,
John
 

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QUOTE (John Webb @ 1 Dec 2009, 05:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>By the way, we are not allowed to run an unlicenced still in the United Kingdom, even for distilling water. At my old school we had to have a licence for the chemistry lab still, and the 'Customs and Excise' people checked it every year to ensure we were only using it for water and not something more potent!

Regards,
John

Thank you for the information! The above-referenced fact, I suppose, should not surprise me quite as much as it did, but nonetheless I am appalled! Small wonder I note, then, the high cost of distilled water there. But, as I mentioned, I am "new to the ways and wiles" of your country!

As an aside here, I have communicated with a gentleman who, having been born in England, drove a taxi all his life, retired, and emigrated to, of all places, California, in my country. He was posting on a gun forum, explaining how much the thrill of having purchased a handgun for pleasure shooting and self-defense has encompassed him! He sounded almost like a child with a new toy!

A further thought having just struck me, as certain as the laws of physics apply equally well there as here, and knowing that enormous amounts of water are evaporated from bodies of water, and condense back to liquid again, would it be possible to de-mineralize water using natural forces such as sunlight, or would authorities view such work as a "still"?

Your far-away neighbor, imp
 

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I thought cooled boiled water was a good substitute for distilled water.Correct me if Im wrong.
cheers Frame
 

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QUOTE (frame69 @ 1 Dec 2009, 20:01) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I thought cooled boiled water was a good substitute for distilled water.Correct me if Im wrong.
cheers Frame

Frame, "correcting" others is not polite behaviour (we spell it behavior), rather "expanding upon the content" is more suitable to my thinking.

Boiling water eliminates some of the original water present before heating, assuming it is not ALL boiled away. Any material dissolved in the water to begin with, minerals generally, depending on it's source (well water is often highly mineralized, or "hard"), will remain behind in the water not boiled away, with the result that the remaining water will contain a HIGHER dissolved solids percentage than originally, making it even LESS SUITABLE for use in a boiler. Such liquid having higher than original mineralization content is often called "brine".

Now, the water vaporized during the boiling, which has left the original boiling-pot, contains no dissolved solids, and but a bit of dissolved gases from the surrounding air, carbon dioxide being the nasty one. The trick is to "catch" that vapor and allow it to cool, and turn back into water again! I have been advised such work is frowned upon in UK by authorities, a pity, as far as I am concerned!

imp
 
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