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QUOTE My personal view is that Hornby and Bachmann offer a value RTR mass produced product at a priceAgree especially with regard to Bachmann.

QUOTE How many Bachmann Deltics will be sold with sound chips if they come in at the rumoured £70 above the cost of a standard model? Probably not as many as they would like. £40 to £50 more and they will sell. The Deltic may be an exception?

QUOTE In terms of detailing how much more could Bachmann and Hornby offer? The effort should go into the robustness of some of the detailing. Too many things are cheap and nasty and as a result more vunerable. Of course there are limits with this degree of fine detail, but todays offerings often fall short of acceptable.

QUOTE They are surely at the limits now? Of course not, look at US and Continental ranges.

QUOTE Running qualities cannot be bettered.Ha Ha Ha!
3 Hornby class 08/09 returned. lubrication of the offending squeal didn't solve the problem. A poor effort!
Over greasing of Bachmann gears and jerky operation of some locos.

QUOTE So what more can seriously be done?
And are you prepared to pay the price? The quality has indeed improved (classes 57, 60 and 66 for eg.), but there is more that can be done.
Pay more? If it's value for money, yes. You don't have to go to Marklin levels of build to get a much better product.
I hope competition is the key to this gradual improvement, as we will soon see with DCC fitted products.

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