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QUOTE Its all very well wanting more but at what price?

I definitely think there is a gap in the market for UK outline made to a Marklin standard. I would buy it and I'm not alone. The main reason I dropped UK modelling in preference for German was due to quality and digital sound, lights, smoke etc. My preference would be for British outline as we ( Britain) made the best looking steam locos and I would far prefer these with the sound and so on. Price is obviously the big issue. If Hornby had these built in China they could under cut the prices associated with continental modelling. I, personally, choose to have fewer models that do more rather than ninety that only move backwards and forwards. I have to admit prior to buying and running continental trains I could not understand why anyone would pay these prices either. Now I own several I do.

QUOTE How many Bachmann Deltics will be sold with sound chips if they come in at the rumoured £70 above the cost of a standard model?

I really wish they had started with steam locos rather than diesel. I would have bought them all but with diesel, I might buy one to try them out.

QUOTE In terms of detailing how much more could Bachmann and Hornby offer?

Nothing, they are as detailed as realistically possible.

QUOTE Running qualities cannot be bettered.

Oh yes they could. The diesels and DMUs are ok but some Hornby steam derail quite regularly. None of my German locos derail at all!


QUOTE So what more can seriously be done?

sound, lights, smoke generator ready, metal bodies, pantographs that go up and down.

QUOTE And are you prepared to pay the price?

I already do. Once we know the price of the UK items it would be interesting to do a poll and find out.

QUOTE My personal view is that Hornby and Bachmann offer a value RTR mass produced product at a price and that those who want more can upgrade the product themselves to meet their specific criteria with their own money!

Some of us don't want to. We want to buy a train that is ready to run with all the extras built in rather than having to spend hours messing around with a soldering iron. I prefer to run trains than modify them.

I think once you have a market used to a certain price then increases don't go down well. Regardless of what extra you offer. So it is going to be hard to introduce higher specs to a mass market. It really comes down to what the individual requires and is prepared to pay.
In the UK there has been a monopoly in this area until about ten years ago when Bachmann came along and it is since then that standards have risen. More competition in the UK market would benefit everyone. I appreciate what Gary is saying about what Hornby and Bachmann. What they make is value for money but I think that the UK outline market is sufficiently big to accomodate a higher spec product as well.
 

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QUOTE QUOTE
In terms of detailing how much more could Bachmann and Hornby offer?
The effort should go into the robustness of some of the detailing. Too many things are cheap and nasty and as a result more vunerable. Of course there are limits with this degree of fine detail, but todays offerings often fall short of acceptable.

Right on the button. While the detail has improved it is flimsy and makes the locos fragile. On Marklin/Trix locos the detail parts are metal and you would need pliers and a fair bit of pressure to pull them off. With the new Hornby you could probably blow the detail parts off.


As for build quality goes look at Dougs review of the Flying Scotsman comments. This is less than a year old and the build quality is dubious.

QUOTE A quick check does indeed confirm that full spec steam locos in Europe with all of the above are £300 or more!

You're looking in the wrong place. Not intentionally I hope! These are around 300 euros if you buy them from Germany. So that would be 200 quid.


There is a reason so many people are into continental modelling and its not just because we all love German trains more than British. The problem with UK outline is the lack of competition. That is why the UK outline is so far behind the rest of the modelling world. One company has dominated here for too long and most UK modellers know nothing else. In Germany and the USA competition has led to offering better value and features. Hornby are still knocking out some products they did when I was a kid 25 years ago and they haven't changed at all. I reckon wait and see what happens with the Bachmann digital locos.
 

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QUOTE I'm afraid that this topic is quickly heading south. Should I close it now or wait till it really get nasty?

We should at least wait till three rail Pete gets here. I'm sure he would be gutted if this was closed down before he contributed.

QUOTE Do most British steam locomotives have internal plumbing

What do you mean by internal plumbing?
 
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