[Makemineadouble]

I don't want to change subjects but Peco generally seem to caught in a time warp. I've never forgiven their attitude to the internet a few years ago, Canute like, and highly protectionist. Pity they did'nt adopt the internet like Model Railroader who seem to really have got it right. Someone commented that Seaton it's self is still in the 1960's. Their turntable is a fine example of excellent moulding, but progression to motorising certainly not. They have no intention of doing that, buy a third party mechano kit that dosn't work properly. When was the last time you saw anything new emerge from Seaton. OK code 83 track to protect their highly lucrive North American marketshare.

I only buy Railway Modeller because their coverage of exibitions is better than anyone else. However it's begining to run thin and there is a strong anti DCC element within the magazine. This caught my attention in the July issue of the Toddler. It was a Letter from John G Nelson that caught my eye, and caused me to consider if I want to buy RM on a regular basis. Titled DCC and Gainsborough Mr Nelson would like to add his support to the "anti DCC brigade". Is there a strong anti DCC Brigade ? I rather doupt it. Railway modellers are very tolerant folk arn't we ?. There still seems to be a very strong anti DCC section within RM, to keep publishing this sort of stuff from a small bunch of Luddites.

Why is it that we don't see letters of this ilk in Model Rail or British Railway Modelling? It's sad, and possibly a sick magazine that pampers to the whim of such individuals. No I would'nt have bought Railway Modeller just to read Mr Nelson's letter but I might well have avoided buying it. I intend to write to both Model Rail and BRM and sugguest they strengthen the coverage of exibitions and maybe I can avoid buying RM as I've done for the last 20 years.

 

[Dennis David]

I've started this thread so that I caould move some posts from the Tillig thread.

 

[Dennis David]

Personally I like magazines that have a viewpoint. In fact sometimes I don't buy issues simply because I can't stand the feature article but I'm rewarded when there is another that I just "have" to read. It's like product reviews, when does fair and balanced become misleading and apologetic?

 

[dwb]

Here's my response which I've copied from the original thread.

You may be surprised to hear that the Peco website has recently undergone an extensive overhaul and now contains a lot more content than before. I agree that there have been few new OO products from them in the last couple of decades. The new stuff seems to be in N gauge, oh and their new GWR Collett 2251 locomotive ships DCC equipped, not just "DCC Ready". Yes it's a great pity that their OO track has HO scale sleepers but then the gauge is too narrow in any case, /but/ I do not agree that Peco are anti DCC.

Why not visit the updated Peco site here and having read it, see if your argument that Peco is anti DCC still holds up.

David

PS. On the subject of "unaltered long running product ranges" maybe we could have a separate thread? My nomination would be SuperQuick!

 

[Dennis David]

Now this thread makes perfect sense.

 

[dwb]

>Now this thread makes perfect sense
Hmmm. <FX re-reads mmd's original post>

Ah ha! In the opening line we have "Peco generally seem to caught in a time warp", but after missing the fact that Peco moved to Beer from Seaton in the late 70s(?), and pointing out the sad inadequacies of their turntable, the argument moves on to anti DCC letter(s) published by Railway Modeller, which I guess are a matter of editorial policy.

My mistake has to been to conflate the "Peco in a time warp" and "anti DCC" comments to create the thought "Peco is anti DCC" which I believe to be very far from the truth.

Is that clearer?

David

PS. And if that still isn't clear, I apologise....

 

[Makemineadouble]

Beer and Seaton are next door to one another the last time I was there.

Note I didnt say Peco was anti DCC read my post it says someone within the organisation is anti DCC, there is a difference. This one of several very sharp letters in letters to the editor on the subject of anti DCC, I feel my comment is more than justified.

I don't know when last you visited Peco DWD but they are resoundingly in a time warp. " But not with their prices " !!. They have a little gnome with a calculator and this little s*** has an annual price increase of 7.5% often carried out in smaller bites so the public don't notice.

Yes I agree Peco have been quite progressive in their support of N gauge, I thinks it's fair to say without their support N gauge would not have proved to be so popular. Its a pity that someone did'nt carry the flag for 3mm all those years ago, as with todays motors and moulding techniques we would have a winning gauge in TT. Now there's another subject for you Dennis.

 

[Makemineadouble]

BTW I did visit the Peco site recently "to check the dates of their DCC event" I don't think their web site has significantly changed. I would rank it as dismally dated "dispite the revamp"

 

[Dennis David]

Now I'm really confused. Are we talking anti-DCC brigades, magazines, Peco or just the fact that everybody else in Europe views the entire UK as a "little too fond of the past"?

 

[dwb]

Do you want the five minute argument or the ten minute one?

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE I only buy Railway Modeller because their coverage of exibitions is better than anyone else. However it's begining to run thin and there is a strong anti DCC element within the magazine. This caught my attention in the July issue of the Toddler. It was a Letter from John G Nelson that caught my eye, and caused me to consider if I want to buy RM on a regular basis. Titled DCC and Gainsborough Mr Nelson would like to add his support to the "anti DCC brigade". Is there a strong anti DCC Brigade ? I rather doupt it. Railway modellers are very tolerant folk arn't we ?. There still seems to be a very strong anti DCC section within RM, to keep publishing this sort of stuff from a small bunch of Luddites.

I have to admit I do agree with this to a certain extent. Railway Modeller seems to primarily cater to rivet counters and scratch builders of obscure wagons, whereas the other magazines are a whole lot more accessible and relevant to the average modeller. I'm not so sure about anti dcc as Peco do their dcc weekends. I think it's more to do with the kind of people that read Railway Modeller. It's hardly enticing to younger modellers as it pretty much retains the same format and style it did thirty years ago. Interestingly enough as I said on another thread Hornby is still knocking out some of the same product it did thirty years ago which explains QUOTE the fact that everybody else in Europe views the entire UK as a "little too fond of the past"?

I do buy Railway Modeller and Continental Modeller regularly but I really do sometimes wonder why? The anti dcc tirades really got up my nose as well.

I really can't stand old f

s stuck in the past who don't want to modernise and keep up with the real world and try to keep every body else there with them. Maybe they should have their own magazine called anachronistic paleolithic modeller and whinge away to themselves about how the times are changing and how bad it is without irritating every one else. Just a suggestion.

 

[Dennis David]

QUOTE The anti-dcc tirades really got up my nose as well.

"If God had intended for us to operate more than one train at a time he would have given us three arms."

 

[pedromorgan]

DWB- actually i was on the peco site the other day. but looking for information on ratio kits (i didnt know peco owned Ratio- you learn something new evry day!)
how did we get onto DCC?
i like the new collett loco even if it is N gauge. i think in n gauge locos should be DCC ready as it is far more difficult to install a decoder. i dont think there is the same case for HO/OO, i think anyone can install a decoder very easily if they sit down quietly and give it a go, it really isnt that difficult. some manufacturers could make it easier by using tender sockets etc....

my criticisms of peco are not that they are bad products in any way shape or form. they are like land rovers. they have always been solid reliable and updated now and then. but they do lack charisma. i just wonder what would happen if they gave Phil Granger a bit more money and let his emagination loose. he must have some wonderfull ideas upstairs.

in the subject of magazines, i like railway modeller. the standard of modelling is much higher than others. but i would like to see them do propper reviews. they do have a tendancy to just print press releases. i would like to see drect comparisont between the model and the real thing. lets see side buy side pictures so we can make up our own minds.

"the fact that everybody else in Europe views the entire UK as a "little too fond of the past"?" i am not even going to bother with that one. at least were not governed by arnie! i dont think californians realises how much the rest of the world is laughing at them.

peter

 

[Rail-Rider]

So many facets of Peco criticised in the first post, that it's difficult to follow the butterfly hops.
But I think this bears looking at.
QUOTE . . . generally seem to caught in a time warp
Isn't the major point of railway modelling in general, in fact almost the entire point, to enable precisely that?
To recreate what WE personally love the best and preserve it?
To recreate our own individual time warp?
Should diesel and electric modellers label steam modellers as Luddites?
Should modellers of anything based on pre-2006 be labelled similarly?

The 'Luddite' label is every bit as intolerant of others as the accusations levelled at some correspondents in Railway Modeller. There is nothing to choose between them. Both ignore the common interest and, instead, exacerbate differences - to the detriment of community spirit. It's fine to disagree, but surely not to disparage and mock the feelings or preferences of others.

I could level several minor criticisms at Peco; have done in the past and may do so again. For instance, their terribly slow adoption of the internet WAS frustrating, but it hardly justifies "Never fogiven"! As pointed, out, this is slowly changing.

Despite all, the fact remains that this company and its products are both very healthy and have endured many years as a mainstay of British railway modelling while others have come and gone. I think it is in the interest of the hobby as a whole, to try to avoid painting others (or ourselves) into intolerant, opposing corners.

PS
If there is particularly strong feeling about Railway Modeller's editorial policy, then perhaps express it directly to them. It could be interesting to see if were published, to provide a cross-section of views, to provide 'balance'.

 

[CeeDeeI]

Peco and the Railway Modeller have been with me through more than half a century of modelling. I have watched other magazines and businesses fall by the wayside for various reasons but Peco have stuck it out and are now more successful than ever. They are part of the base industry of railway modelling but it's for sure that they aren't going to please everybody all the time but I think their present day sales figures speak for themselves.
I have no financial interest in Peco just a satisfied long term customer.

 

[Dennis David]

People laugh even more about San Francisco which is the area where I live but then San Francisco and California are the top tourist destinations in the United States so go figure.

Did I mention that Peco track has a great rep in the US? I guess some companies just prefer to innovate at their own pace.

 

[CeeDeeI]

Quite so.

 

[Makemineadouble]

This whole subject got a bit confused, because my orginal post got moved and started as a new subject.
I dont have a problem with Peco track, or turnouts, and if Peco choose to operate their business in a time warp good luck to them. If they want to give creedance to the anti DCC brigade it's also fine. I'm just not going to waste my money buying their magazine, while they print this waffle.

 

[bangerblueed]

Personally i don't buy the RM because it is too PECOCENTRIC. by that I mean that the editorial policy is to feature articles which broadly reflect their product range such as narrow guage layouts GWR branch lines etc which fit in nicely with their range

BRM is a very thin and wishy washy magazine which seems to be a little unsure of what it should be. I do subscribe to MRM which is struggling to find it's niche but is valiantly attempting to get there. I also subscribe to REX for the modelling supplement mainly and occasionally buy model rail

What i find is that none of the magazines quite fits the bill for me and I doubt they ever will because they are never going to be all things to all modellers but they all have room for improvement and many need more content than at present

As for the editorials well I ignore them They are the Highly opinionated telling me what to think I CAN MAKE MY OWN MIND UP

Thats my 2 penworth

 

[Oakydoke]

Although a D&E modeller, I do like the occassional article on good steam or even NG layouts.
It's usually the photography that would convince me to look at those articles.

I subcribe to MRM and also regularly buy Model Rail and REX; but I will buy the occassional BRM or RM if there is something of interest, such as DCC or prototype information.

In my humble opinion, the Railway Modeller is definately stuck in the past with regards to the editorial style and their whole approach to the hobby.

There seems to be little mention of inovation or new techniques, however, they are not totally averse to DCC, just a "little slow" in reflecting how it's taking off "big time" in the UK.

Naturally they are only going to mention Peco products, so for example, there wont be any articles detailing how Tillig track trashes Peco's own products.

Also, when it comes to the RM and DCC, why do ZTC seem to dominate?
ZTC is a small player in the DCC industry, and hardly figures outside of the UK, being totally unknown in most countries. The biggest players in DCC here in the UK are Lenz, Digitrax, Gaugemaster (with their cloned MRC unit) and soon Hornby.
ZTC products are well over-priced, under-specified and dogged by a long history of technical problems, so RM are not doing their readers any favours in mentioning that brand. Vested interest perhaps?

As for pandering to the crazed rantings of various anti-DCC loonies, why is there no balance, and why no editors comment to correct blatent mis-information or mis-understanding?

Clearly the Peco/RM formula is successful, but I strongly suspect the bulk of their readership is at the older end of the age spectrum. Inevitably the sales of RM will dwindle if they don't move with the times, but I don't think they are that stupid; after all, they have been successful at what they do for a long time.

Oakydoke