duchess of hamilton
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I am really looking forward to seeing that. soo many people have criticised the project for spoiling the loco and saying "its not what stanier would have wanted" but they just dont get the point. its about the era, its about art deco design, its form over funcetion that was the fasion when it was built. it didnt matter if it was rubbish, it had to look fast. weather it was a steam loco, an ocean liner of a hairdryer, it had to look fast.
Peter
Peter
This is a project I have mixed feelings about. on the one hand it does give a visual comparison of all three streamlined/airsmmothed pacifics in the national collection and also gives people like myself to see one in the flesh who would otherwise never do so. On the other I think there are more deserving things in the collection to spend that sort of money on.
Regards
Regards
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QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 4 Dec 2007, 15:19) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I am really looking forward to seeing that. soo many people have criticised the project for spoiling the loco and saying "its not what stanier would have wanted" but they just dont get the point. its about the era, its about art deco design, its form over funcetion that was the fasion when it was built. it didnt matter if it was rubbish, it had to look fast. weather it was a steam loco, an ocean liner of a hairdryer, it had to look fast.
Peter
***Yes Peter, and it *was* fast: I suspect that had it been placed on the same flat racetrack as the A4's it'd have proven its reputation as the best of the Pacifics without much effort, and it would have done it without needing significant repairs after making the effort unlike the record holder
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Bloomin hard on the fireman though
***Britho: I thought that Hamilton was clad using funds from an appeal especially to pay for it wasn't it - therefore it should have taken nothing from the NRM funding - or am I wrong? Which project would you have preferred to see cash invested in?? Not a loco from one of those more southerly lines with North facing up lines I hope!
With tongue firmly in cheek (and tin hat on)...Personally I'd like to see them dispose of by auction a certain "over-exposed" rather famous Pale-ish Green Steam loco to the Americans so it could provide much of the funding to recreate LMS 10000 and/or 10001.....
Or perhaps just build another Coronation!!!
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. A reborn Atholl or Montrose would be just fine, as they were the first loco many of us ever had from Hornby Dublo!
Richard
Peter
***Yes Peter, and it *was* fast: I suspect that had it been placed on the same flat racetrack as the A4's it'd have proven its reputation as the best of the Pacifics without much effort, and it would have done it without needing significant repairs after making the effort unlike the record holder
Bloomin hard on the fireman though
***Britho: I thought that Hamilton was clad using funds from an appeal especially to pay for it wasn't it - therefore it should have taken nothing from the NRM funding - or am I wrong? Which project would you have preferred to see cash invested in?? Not a loco from one of those more southerly lines with North facing up lines I hope!
With tongue firmly in cheek (and tin hat on)...Personally I'd like to see them dispose of by auction a certain "over-exposed" rather famous Pale-ish Green Steam loco to the Americans so it could provide much of the funding to recreate LMS 10000 and/or 10001.....
Or perhaps just build another Coronation!!!
Richard
QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 4 Dec 2007, 14:45) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>With tongue firmly in cheek (and tin hat on)...Personally I'd like to see them dispose of by auction a certain "over-exposed" rather famous Pale-ish Green Steam loco to the Americans so it could provide much of the funding to recreate LMS 10000 and/or 10001.....
Would that be the one without smoke deflectors and double chimney and carrying the wrong number?
Regards
Would that be the one without smoke deflectors and double chimney and carrying the wrong number?
Regards
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QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 4 Dec 2007, 14:45) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>With tongue firmly in cheek (and tin hat on)...Personally I'd like to see them dispose of by auction a certain "over-exposed" rather famous Pale-ish Green Steam loco to the Americans so it could provide much of the funding to recreate LMS 10000 and/or 10001.....
I for one agree - this particular locomotive is IMHO over hyped & seems to be a real black hole where money is concerned. Just look at some of it's former owners - people who could well afford to keep it - why do they no-longer own it ?
I for one agree - this particular locomotive is IMHO over hyped & seems to be a real black hole where money is concerned. Just look at some of it's former owners - people who could well afford to keep it - why do they no-longer own it ?
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QUOTE ***Yes Peter, and it *was* fast: I suspect that had it been placed on the same flat racetrack as the A4's it'd have proven its reputation as the best of the Pacifics without much effort, and it would have done it without needing significant repairs after making the effort unlike the record holder
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Say what you like, it's not an LMS locomotive that's in the record books and nothing's going to change it now
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David
Say what you like, it's not an LMS locomotive that's in the record books and nothing's going to change it now
David
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3,614 Posts
QUOTE (dbclass50 @ 4 Dec 2007, 17:05) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I for one agree - this particular locomotive is IMHO over hyped & seems to be a real black hole where money is concerned. Just look at some of it's former owners - people who could well afford to keep it - why do they no-longer own it ?
I agree its over hyped but the condition of the loco was not their fault. it was a bag of bolts when it arrived and needed a massive overhaul. its cylinders were cracked. its boiler leaking like a seive, its bearings worn out......
Think about it as a publicity machine. its a loco that they can mess about with. they can install whatever safty systems they like, they can fiddle the brakes, the boiler can be swapped whenever they feel like it. in a museum where most of the locos are knocking on 100 and you have to really question weather they should be put back into steam i think its great that they now have a loco where that is not a conciderationn. the loco is soo messed up anyway, a little more really wont make much difference.
I think the really good overhaul is exactly what it needs and will sort out many of the problems once and for all.
I do however wish that the NRM would give us alot more info and pictures of the work. if it was being done in the US we would be getting a picture of evrything that happens to it yet at the NRM it all seems to happen behind closed doors.
Peter
I agree its over hyped but the condition of the loco was not their fault. it was a bag of bolts when it arrived and needed a massive overhaul. its cylinders were cracked. its boiler leaking like a seive, its bearings worn out......
Think about it as a publicity machine. its a loco that they can mess about with. they can install whatever safty systems they like, they can fiddle the brakes, the boiler can be swapped whenever they feel like it. in a museum where most of the locos are knocking on 100 and you have to really question weather they should be put back into steam i think its great that they now have a loco where that is not a conciderationn. the loco is soo messed up anyway, a little more really wont make much difference.
I think the really good overhaul is exactly what it needs and will sort out many of the problems once and for all.
I do however wish that the NRM would give us alot more info and pictures of the work. if it was being done in the US we would be getting a picture of evrything that happens to it yet at the NRM it all seems to happen behind closed doors.
Peter
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13,319 Posts
Personally, I think it would be better to just keep it as a static exhibit. If funds were unlimited, then fair enough rebuild it from buffer to buffer, that's after everyone has argued till the cows come home about what "version" it would re-appear as.
How about those that really want to spend more money on it could raise the funds themselves & still keep it under NRM ownership.
Maybe the whole locomotive has just gone too far ?
Or, instead of flogging it to the US, how about letting the US have it on loan for say 10 years on the condition it comes back in as new condition ? They certainly would have the funds to do so.
How about those that really want to spend more money on it could raise the funds themselves & still keep it under NRM ownership.
Maybe the whole locomotive has just gone too far ?
Or, instead of flogging it to the US, how about letting the US have it on loan for say 10 years on the condition it comes back in as new condition ? They certainly would have the funds to do so.
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3,614 Posts
i think part of the problem was that people donated alot of money to the scotsmann apeal rather than to the NRM. the over run on the appeal has covered the cost of this rebuild. i think its the one part of the NRM that really isnt strapped for cash. a buffer to buffer rebuild is basically exactly whats happening.
Peter
Peter
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By coincidence, both the January 2008 issue of 'The Railway Magazine' (RM) and the latest '4472 Express Club newsletter' from the NRM came through my letterbox just before lunch.
Combining the news from both:
There is a photo of work in progress at Tysley on page 70 of the RM, showing the support frames on the boiler to take the streamline cladding.
The Duchess will be unveiled at York on the 31st of January 2008, when an exhibition will open commemorating the 70th anniversary of the start of the 'Coronation Scot' services.
It is possible that the Duchess will be moved from Tysley to York behind 'Duchess of Sutherland'.
Photographs of 4472's restoration have been taken in quantity. These will be viewable through the new 'Search Engine' at the NRM, which is set to open on the 28th of February 2008, and which will give access to 1.5Million photographs held by the NRM. (The newsletter also says 'December 2007' for opening the 'Search Engine' - this may the date from which it can be accessed on-line, perhaps?)
I assume that similar pictures of the work on 6229 should be available from the same source.
Regards,
John Webb
Combining the news from both:
There is a photo of work in progress at Tysley on page 70 of the RM, showing the support frames on the boiler to take the streamline cladding.
The Duchess will be unveiled at York on the 31st of January 2008, when an exhibition will open commemorating the 70th anniversary of the start of the 'Coronation Scot' services.
It is possible that the Duchess will be moved from Tysley to York behind 'Duchess of Sutherland'.
Photographs of 4472's restoration have been taken in quantity. These will be viewable through the new 'Search Engine' at the NRM, which is set to open on the 28th of February 2008, and which will give access to 1.5Million photographs held by the NRM. (The newsletter also says 'December 2007' for opening the 'Search Engine' - this may the date from which it can be accessed on-line, perhaps?)
I assume that similar pictures of the work on 6229 should be available from the same source.
Regards,
John Webb
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