[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (Doug @ 27 Oct 2006, 08:46) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>What's the point in saying we have the killer product unless you at least show some features.

To (hopefully) stop people buying their competitors product until their own is available ?

regards
Brian

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 28 Oct 2006, 05:46) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I really cant believe many of you have been so willing to write things off before you have even had the courtesy to wait and see what they are like.

Frankly i just find that rood.

Peter

Probably because so many times before in life things do not always live up to expectations.

& maybe if the manufactures did not announce things so far in advance & we did not have the internet we would not be able to.

Make a good change from ZTC bashing though !

best regards
Brian

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (Ravenser @ 4 Dec 2006, 20:39) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Or it can become mass -market: a control system for general use. Until now , the cost has been prohibitive for most people. For someone with 100 locos and a sizeable layout - and there are a surprising number of them out there- , the cost of "going DCC" with top end equipment across the border , as recommended by most existing DCC enthusiasts would be about £3000 to £4000 : near to the sort of money most families spend on their main car

As far as the technical side goes I'm keeping out of this one untill we have actual facts, however I just have to question your maths ( & BTW, myself, Neil & MMaD have never as "most existing DCC enthusiasts" or "self proclaimed experts" as referred to by another member recommended that the only route is "top end" - we have only pointed out that some entry level systems are just that - nothing wrong with them at all but limited with their upgradability.)

2 x examples ;

100 x Locos 100 x Lenz Silvers @ £20.00 (quality decoder) £2,000
Lenz Set LH 100 £250.00
Now that adds up to £2,250 (or it did when I went to school) - that's well short of the £3/4,000 you quoted.

or
100 x Gaugemaster Decoders @ £17.50 (good quality "middle of road") £1,750
Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance @ 185.00
£1,935 - not even 50% of your higher figure.

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (Makemineadouble @ 5 Dec 2006, 09:29) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>This is not the way most people tackle DCC. You can buy a top unit for well under £400 including a transformer.
Then normally loco's get converted perhaps starting with 10 at a time and then 5 at a time. Very often some of the 100 loco's you mention so are old, junk and not suitable for conversion. (typically old tender drives and some open frame motors). So this expense to probably 50% of what was claimed at around £2000.00 spread over a longer period. I am assuming the decoder installation will be done by the owner. This argument is often brought up on Pat Hammond's Model Railway Express normally by some obscure expert.
There's no nice way to put this:
DCC systems with features cost money, Decoders with the features that you probably want cost money, so if you've made the decision to go DCC don't bleat about the cost
You simply have to accept that the Hobby has moved on and if you want the goodies you have to pay the price.
From what I've seen at Warley and if I was looking for a budget system the Bachmann Dyamis is possibly going to be your best bet. I'd like to see a few more details about the turnout operating specification, but up front I think Bachmann have made a good decision to wait and get the specifications right, rather than rush like Hornby. I have deliberately not added further comment about the Hornby system as it's been well covered in other forums.
Another point if you buy cheap decoders don't expect good DCC performance. It stands to reason that if you buy a good DCC setup your going to compromise performance by buying budget decoders.

BTW I don't regard myself as a DCC expert. I been using DCC since 1994 that makes 12 years of use. I regard myself as a power user, I give good solid practical experience.

Excellent advise & I fully agree !

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (Doug @ 5 Dec 2006, 09:42) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I ask those people with 'hundreds of locos': Do you run all your locos on your layout?
I know that I don't. The locos that I run are the ones that run well. To those I add a decoder. The bad locos can go up and down a test track that can be hooked up to a DC controller and isolated from the rest of the layout.

I must be lucky then - my fleet is approx 125 including steam, diesel, OHE, DMU, EMU's all DCC with a mix of mainly Lenz & ESU decoders a mix of makes also, Fleischmann, Roco, Piko, Trix, Marklin/Hamo. Not all out at the same time though - there is not enough room !

I did have more, but the few indifferent runners went apart from Lilliput 0-6-0 that my wife thinks is "cute" so it stays in the showcase.

When talking to people about DCC & converting I ask people that very same question. Often, as they don't run them all they use changing to DCC as a good reason to do some housekeeping (& raise some useful funds).

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (Gary @ 5 Dec 2006, 10:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The gents speaking of high cost systems have very large layouts by UK standards and possibly big spending power.
Happy modelling
Gary

Gary,

Simple question - simple answer.

Am I one of the "gents" you are referring to.

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (Dennis David @ 5 Dec 2006, 12:29) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I see we're still at it.

Well we had stopped. In fact I (& Neil) had already declared that we were going to "leave it alone" until we all had some factual imformation on the Dynamis.

However, this was not good enough for Gary. Out he came like an Exorcet Missile trotting out the same old entry level/full featured system rubbish attacking the "experts" who he again wrongly accuses of saying that all entry level systems are not worth considering. Wrong, wrong, wrong - all the "experts" are saying is that some entry level systems are limited in their ability to be upgraded & that people should be made aware of this, decide how they will use DCC, decide how they may progress & then make their own desision prior to purchase.

Maybe we could all save some time if we just copied & pasted the "Select" debate, changed the word Select for Dynamis & left it there. Same discussion, different name.

Gary's main problem is that his transmit/receive switch is stuck on the transmit position. He just doe not seem to be able to answer any question or point that may just weaken his POV.

BTW - I could sell you a sound 635 CSI Beemer in need of a little TLC for around £800 (has an interesting plate too.)

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (Gary @ 5 Dec 2006, 15:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>What I would really like to see is when we start a thread on a specific product to stick to the subject matter of that product.

This is a thread about Dynamis. Simple.

Happy modelling
Gary

In that case Gary start a new thread titled something like "Gary's Dynamis Only thread" & I for one will not post in it !

But something does puzzle me - why do you want to know anything at all about the Dynamis at all ? - judging from your voracious defence of the Select when you were under the misguided impression that "we" said you must have a top level system.

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (dwb @ 5 Dec 2006, 18:23) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>>Roco is not readily available in the UK ( I don't think you could buy one at Warley),
If you had asked at MacKay's stand, they might have ordered one for you, but I don't think that was the point you were trying to make.

David

Anyone interested in Roco, please send me a private message.

 

[Brian Considine]

Interesting regarding the "knobs/buttons" preferance - I have noticed that most people prefer a control knob with centre off, but the thing I noticed was that it was the "more mature" person that feel into that category. The younger ones were generally quite happy with buttons.

Gary - what was the "mix" in your experience ?