DYNAMIS

QUOTE 40 trains under control at any one timeThat means 40 locos can run at once, implying that the device can output between 8 and 12 amps - probably 10 amp output. Big system.

QUOTE 5 individual locomotive addresses joined together in what is called a 'consist'...They're still educating... Which means that it may not be aimed at the DCC experts.

QUOTE ...consists to contain up to 5 locomotives...Consists of 5 locos would appeal to the American modellers, which means they may be tackling Digitrax head on with this device. British outline doesn't need 5-loco consisting, or does it?

>British outline doesn't need 5-loco consisting, or does it?
Maybe if you're looking at the LMS pre-Stanier - all that Midland Railway "small engine" policy...

David

>that was one of those trains which is over a mile long. Try modelling that in HO.
Pah! That's only 60 feet or 15 of your foot modules. Gary's done two already - just 13 more to go....

David

Regarding the 5-loco consists, this could be simply that the marketing department is telling the development department to one better than the competition.

Somebody is going to like this, but the majority of users will never use it. The feature will however be a bullet point on the brochure.

The Sishen-Saldanha Railway Line, South Africa
This railway line crosses a large part of the West Coast area. Running from the deep-sea harbour at Saldanha on the West coast of South Africa to the open-cast mines at Sishen in the Northern Cape.



Construction on the railway line started on 1 June 1973 and the first ore train arrived at Saldanha on 14 May 1976. On 27 September of the same year the first ore carrier left Saldanha, bound for Europe.



Although the railway line was built to transport iron ore, almost 24% of its revenue is derived from the transport of other minerals such as zinc concentrates, salt, gypsum and coal.

The line is 861km long and is fully electrified. There are only three bends along the whole stretch, with a maximum radius of 1000m. The only tunnel is the Bobbejaansberg Tunnel, 840m long, near Elands Bay.



In 1989 a world record was set when the longest and heaviest train ever assembled covered the distance. The entry in the Guiness Book of Records read as follows:

* Length of train - 7 303km
* Gross mass of train - 71 210ton
* No. of loaded trucks - 660
* No. of locomotives - 9 electrical and 7 diesel
* Distance covered - 861km
* Maximum speed - 80km/h
* Average speed - 38,04km/h

Wow thats a hell of a size of a train, over 7k's The irony is I was living in SA in 1989 and knew nothing about this.

It is very impressive. Clearly Bachmann are designing a system with South African modellers in mind.

I am beginning to wonder precisely how much input Bachmann UK have in the design of Dynamis?

The early evidence suggests it is way over the top for the needs of the average UK modeller.

And that Bachmann UK have zero say!

The price point when this is revealed will be very interesting.

Happy modelling
Gary

QUOTE (Mark Thornton @ 6 Nov 2006, 20:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>"What's 12 miles long, weighs 100,000 tons, and produces 48,000 hp? The BHP Iron Ore (Australia) demonstration unit train that last June set a record as the world's longest, heaviest train, with 682 ore cars, eight GE Transportation Systems AC6000 locomotives, and GETS's LOCOTROL[R] EB distributed power system. The train, in a 2-168-2-168-2-168-1-178-1 configuration with locomotives spaced throughout, traveled 447 miles from BHP's Newman and Yandi mines to Port Hedland, in Western Australia's Pilbara Region, in about 10 hours, with one defective coupler problem enroute."

Anything you can do I can do bigger
I must be in a daze, I was living in Ozz at that time and I missed that too.

EZ-Command uses the X-Bus protocol .

Happy modelling
Gary

I also picked up the leaflet at Warley.

The picture of the unit looks vaguely like a grotty picture of the ESU ECoS unit in an advert in Dec RM. Bachmann , of course , have recently started selling an obsolete ESU decoder with back EMF.

The only startling feature is the statement "Available Spring 2007". Spring could be quite an elastic concept in Barwell, but even so this implies they are in the final stages of development and very close to starting manufacture . Frankly this seems very difficult to credit given the spase info to date.

To pick up Neil and MMD's argument that "Bachmann and Hornby should stay out of DCC" and "buy a top of the line" system - I think we have a fundamental difference of philosophy here.

DCC in the UK is at the crossroads. It could stay a small niche product , targeted at a limited number of "early adopters" who want the latest cuttign edge technology regardless of what it costs - the equivalent of the computer gamers who buy the latest cutting edge graphics card at £200 a time as soon as it comes out, upgrade their machine every year to the latest top end spec etc etc

Or it can become mass -market: a control system for general use. Until now , the cost has been prohibitive for most people. For someone with 100 locos and a sizeable layout - and there are a surprising number of them out there- , the cost of "going DCC" with top end equipment across the border , as recommended by most existing DCC enthusiasts would be about £3000 to £4000 : near to the sort of money most families spend on their main car

This for an almost entirely dispensible bolt on luxury to their hobby. How many of you are prepared to go out and spend £4000 on a new hi-fi system? (I don't mean a television - all the family share in that). Would you spend that on a new computer when your existing machine is perfectly serviceable , though not exactly cutting edge ?

The standard resposes ,"you don't need to chip most of yuour locos" amounts to saying "not only will it cost you a fortune , you've got to dump most of your collection as well"

4 years ago a DVD player cost at least £200 in the UK and only about 5% of the population had one. Now you can buy them for £19.99 in Tescos - and almost everyone has one. The Tescos specimen would make any audiophile grind his teeth - I have something rather better from Richer Sounds . But that's not the point. Drop the price and the product goes mass market. This has been the story for every electronic product bar DCC

Until a few years ago DCC prices in the UK were 50% higher than in the US , and 25%-30% higher than in Germany (the latter being normal importers mark up: the same differential appraently exists for Maerklin and Roco between France and Germany). If cost was the biggest stumbling block to adoption of DCC in the UK, it was certainly being made as difficult as possible

Standing back from the details , the big picture is that Bachmann and Hornby are trying to launch budget priced DCC kit. Equipment that will do the basics at a modest price, to open up the mass market. They are Tescos - not Sevenoaks Hifi

Some folk are saying , in effect , they oppose anythign other than top end DCC, and they don't want the mass market players in DCC - they like it as an expensive little niche supported by a cottage industry . If the choice is top end DCC only , or nothing, 90% of modellers will chose "nothing"

Power DCC users will never choose Hornby or Bachmann systems. But if they are serious in saying everyone should go DCC , they should stop trying to force others into buying only high end kit (The Rco Multimaus is more than enough for most people, unacceptable as it seems to be to some here)

And if you double or triple the cost of model railways, you'll drive a lot of folk out of the hobby. A quarter ? a third? over time . Who knows . But it won't be good

QUOTE To pick up Neil and MMD's argument that "Bachmann and Hornby should stay out of DCC" and "buy a top of the line" system - I think we have a fundamental difference of philosophy here.

I have never said the above so please try to stick to the facts rather than fantasy. What I have said is if you are going to do it get it right rather than make a mess of it. It would be great to see Bachmann and Hornby catch up with the rest of the world and offer good DCC systems. It looks like Bachmann has now done that.

One of the reasons for my advocation of a top of the line system was that some off them are very appropriate for UK style layouts in terms of the features they offer and if some modellers were aware of these features they may well be interested. Addittionally you can only drop the price of these systems by losing spec's and capability. You only get what you pay for and if you do not pay the money you will end up with an inadequate system. By basing your decision to buy based soley on budget you maty regret buying an incompatible inadequate system whic you will turf after a few months. You will find that this arguement was advocated by many others.

QUOTE Some folk are saying , in effect , they oppose anythign other than top end DCC, and they don't want the mass market players in DCC - they like it as an expensive little niche supported by a cottage industry

You obviously didn't read my posts if you're trying to say that that is what I said. What I have said was why try to restrict others if they want a better system as was being advocated by some who reckoned we should all go with the Hornby effort. I recommended good NMRA compatible systems like the Roco MultiMaus as good budget starter systems. My issues were with the dubious specs of the Hornby system and reported compatibility issues and the knock on effect this would have on DCC adoption in the UK market..

Now the new Bachmann system here is very different to the Hornby. They have stated upfront that this is NMRA compliant rather than we kind of hope it might turn out to be as Hornby did, (designed to be NMRA Compliant). This system looks good and designed for adults rather than kids, as one person stated about Hornbys system, " it looks like a Fisher Price toy".

I am actually interested in this as it is NMRA compliant and has some good features. This is a system which is designed for current DCC standards rather than the "competitor" which has been designed to standards which are now history in the international DCC world. From the flyer that Gary has posted this new Bachmann system has features which make this a very good option for someone getting into DCC. I would like to know more about this system as it seems to be the most promising UK based DCC option at the moment.

Neil:

I'm afraid the flyer is all anyone has to go on where Bachmann Dynamis is concerned. I gather the reps on the stand at Warley were declining to give any further information

I don't feel this is enough to allow anyone to draw any conclusions about Dynamis , let alone to conclude that it is better than the Elite will be , bearing in mind that we haven't seen that in the flesh either (The Select is clearly Hornby's trainset controller )

QUOTE You only get what you pay for and if you do not pay the money you will end up with an inadequate system

This sounds to me very like "if you don't pay £250 for a DCC system it won't be any good". You can drop the price of these systems without losing capability because the same system generally sells for 2/3rds the price in the US .

At £250 for a system and £24 for a decoder, DCC is not for the mass market. At £75 -100 for a system and £7-50 to £10 per decoder it may well be

QUOTE If Bachmann and Hornby did not provide DCC starter sets then people may start to look at German Trix Maerklin, Fleischmann and Roco starts sets.

This is far too optimistic . German brands are only available through a few specialist retailers in the UK. They aren't in the high street. Hornby are more worried about kids not buying trainsets at all

QUOTE While their [Trix Maerklin, Fleischmann and Roco ] DCC attempts seem pathetic to the DCC enthusiast,

If this isn't rubbishing the Multimaus, the high priced Flieshmann control centre and the Marklin /Motorola systems. I'd be grateful of clarification

QUOTE By basing your decision to buy based soley on budget you maty regret buying an incompatible inadequate system whic you will turf after a few months. You will find that this arguement was advocated by many others.

Are you saying the Bachmann EZ system is "incompatible with DCC"?? We are not simply discussing the Select here - I'm talking general principles. I agree this "aim high" is the mantra of the DCC enthusiast. I am sick of being told by the Usual Suspect at the club that my locos will only run properly if I fit every one with a Lenz Gold

Would you also describe the NCE PowerCab as a QUOTE incompatible inadequate system whic you will turf after a few months ??

To be clear - I'm suggesting we are seeing, and should welcome, the emergence of a "mid price" bracket of DCC systems at around £100 all up in the UK. Systems falling into this bracket are the Multimaus (though you can't buy it directly in the UK) the PowerCab, the Elite, and Dynamis. All offering 4 digit systems with full programming, point control, plenty of functions , consisting, but compromising in the area of sheer amps, number of cabs supported , feedback and other high end features.

We can't argue about whether the Elite works reliably cos we haven't seen it yet. Nor can we be sure Dynamis will be bug free just cos Bachmann say it will be

Below this band there is the budget price bracket - entries the old Lokmaus (defunct) , Bachmann EZ with its severe limits , and the Select. I don't regret the existance of this bracket , though I'm not myself going to buy this low down the scale

The compatibility issue has been heavily overplayed on this forum by MMD and yourself . The facts , from repeated first hand reports , are that the Select is not designed to do anything other than change the decoder address, and this it does with Lenz, ZTC (ie Digitrax) and Hornby decoders. It looks as if there is an issue with TCS because it looks as if Hornby have given the Select only one programming mode out of 4 . They have explicitly stated the Elite will support all 4 programming modes (I'm no expert here, I'm quoting)

The decoder is more of a problem because it won't read back , although it seems some folk have managed to program the CVs. Until I'm confident it can be addressed succesfully and will take addresses over 99, sadly I won't be buying a Hornby decoder

These look to me like technical glitches from a new entrant to the field launching first products , not evidence that this is not DCC equipment. No one has found any existing player who has developed/licenced Hornby's system so it looks like they have developed a DCC system themselves

The existing players have not taken DCC into the mass market, and most show little interest in doing so. I welcome the emergence of new players who are willing to produce affordable DCC. But I don't think their systems are what you are looking for.

QUOTE Are you saying the Bachmann EZ system is "incompatible with DCC"?? We are not simply discussing the Select here No we know that is not the case. I'm really not sure why you would think that. I was only referring to the Hornby efforts

QUOTE To be clear - I'm suggesting we are seeing, and should welcome, the emergence of a "mid price" bracket of DCC systems at around £100 all up in the UK. Systems falling into this bracket are the Multimaus (though you can't buy it directly in the UK) the PowerCab, the Elite, and Dynamis. All offering 4 digit systems with full programming, point control, plenty of functions , consisting, but compromising in the area of sheer amps, number of cabs supported , feedback and other high end features. The elite doesn't do what you said it does. It has three digit addressing and only eight functions plus lights. Hardly plenty when you consider the new spec is twenty. Whether it is NMRA compatible or not it still has poor spec's compared with it's rivals.

QUOTE The compatibility issue has been heavily overplayed on this forum by MMD and yourself . The facts , from repeated first hand reports , are that the Select is not designed to do anything other than change the decoder address, and this it does with Lenz, ZTC (ie Digitrax) and Hornby decoders. It looks as if there is an issue with TCS because it looks as if Hornby have given the Select only one programming mode out of 4 . They have explicitly stated the Elite will support all 4 programming modes (I'm no expert here, I'm quoting) Compatibility is one issue yet to be established, my main issue was the poor specs. The system has the specs of systems made over five years ago.

QUOTE The decoder is more of a problem because it won't read back , although it seems some folk have managed to program the CVs. Until I'm confident it can be addressed succesfully and will take addresses over 99, sadly I won't be buying a Hornby decoder Neither will I.

QUOTE These look to me like technical glitches from a new entrant to the field launching first products , not evidence that this is not DCC equipment. No one has found any existing player who has developed/licenced Hornby's system so it looks like they have developed a DCC system themselvesAgreed, the information we got here was that a firm in Cambridge who designed it for them.

QUOTE The existing players have not taken DCC into the mass market, and most show little interest in doing so. I welcome the emergence of new players who are willing to produce affordable DCC. But I don't think their systems are what you are looking for. DCC is not mainstream anywhere yet. It is however much more popular in Germany and the States. It is unlikely that it will become the predominant form of control for a while but good moderate priced systems will enable that to happen. My concerns are that a repitition of the Zero one enterprise will shut people off to DCC. From what I have seen, which is all that anyone has at this point, Bachmanns system sounds more promising as they have cooperated with Lenz and ESU and ensured that there system is NMRA compatible. Once more facts are known we can make an informed judgement. At this point we don't know the negatives of the new Bachmann system.

QUOTE This sounds to me very like "if you don't pay £250 for a DCC system it won't be any good". You can drop the price of these systems without losing capability because the same system generally sells for 2/3rds the price in the US . You could pay 75 Euro for a MultiMaus and get a reasonable system but if you want higher specs than you have to pay for the extras. My concern is cost cutting will only be acheived by removing features. The fact is in terms of price you are being severly overcharged for many things in the UK. You have several layers of tax which jack up the price of things in general which is why most things in the USA cost 2/3rds of the price. Just because it's cheap in the USA doesn't translate to it being cheap in the UK as the Government in the UK will be taking a far bigger cut. The point you seem determined to be missing is that I have no problem with budget systems, I have used a budget system for some time and it is the way to start. My issue as I have said a thousand time before is poor budget systems. In this respect Hornby has done itself no favours by starting way behind the competition in terms of specs.

QUOTE If this isn't rubbishing the Multimaus, the high priced Flieshmann control centre and the Marklin /Motorola systems. I'd be grateful of clarification Let me know where you got that quote from. If that came from one of my posts it must have been an error as this is the opposite of what I think.

QUOTE The existing players have not taken DCC into the mass market, and most show little interest in doing so. I welcome the emergence of new players who are willing to produce affordable DCC. But I don't think their systems are what you are looking for.
I disagree, Lenz, Trix, Fleischmann, Roco and Digitrax all have budget systems. They may not have taken off in the UK but they are quite popular elsewhere. If I could get a cheap system to do what I want I'd have it. I was going to go for the MultiMaus but by the time I added all the additional components I needed to get the results I wanted I was on the same price as an Ecos.

So I figured why not just buy it all in one system. I am open to new systems and hope that the Bachmann will offer them at a cheaper price. I could do with saving some money. From the information provided it sounds promising. We'll just have to wait and see.