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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Spent this evening getting out some boxes from my last layout as I am in the middle of wiring my new layout. Found my NCE EB3 and decided to test it with my ECoS. I have set the EB3 to react with no time delay but still the ECoS shuts down first. Has anyone else had this problem with external short circuit protection? I found the EB3 very useful on my last layout as it saves the whole layout from being shut down without needing extra boosters.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Rob
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yep I do indeed, 1.1.1.

Rob
 

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I can't help then. I was looking through the online instructions and there seem to be reams of them. Not like my little Lokmaus2. lol
 

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QUOTE (80class @ 28 Jan 2008, 07:25) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Spent this evening getting out some boxes from my last layout as I am in the middle of wiring my new layout. Found my NCE EB3 and decided to test it with my ECoS. I have set the EB3 to react with no time delay but still the ECoS shuts down first. Has anyone else had this problem with external short circuit protection? I found the EB3 very useful on my last layout as it saves the whole layout from being shut down without needing extra boosters.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Rob

***Hi Rob

ECOS manual I have has it on page 28, section 18.3.1. Set it to same as the marklin recommendation and it should work fine with EB-3.

In case your manual is a different version I've attached a copy of that page as a PDF for you.

Richard

DCCconcepts
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks Richard, i'll try that when I get home tonight

Rob
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
QUOTE (poliss @ 28 Jan 2008, 00:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I can't help then. I was looking through the online instructions and there seem to be reams of them. Not like my little Lokmaus2. lol

Generally the ECoS works very well and is generally very intuitive, but like any complex device, you need to use the manual from time to time!

Thanks for the help,

Rob
 

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Sadly changing the "external boosters" cut out time has not changed the situation. Still the ECoS cuts out before the EB3. Strangely I have noticed that the three LEDs on the EB3 flicker briefly roughly every 3 seconds. This didn't happen on my Lenz set 100.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Rob
 

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QUOTE (80class @ 29 Jan 2008, 06:53) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Sadly changing the "external boosters" cut out time has not changed the situation. Still the ECoS cuts out before the EB3. Strangely I have noticed that the three LEDs on the EB3 flicker briefly roughly every 3 seconds. This didn't happen on my Lenz set 100.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Rob

** Try this Rob: Try first to set the EB-3 to a very short response time.

(Also consider changing the current limit of the 3 seaprate sections of the EB-3 to below ECOS cutout level)
Regards

Richard
DCCconcepts

Adjustment of short circuit response time (if necessary):
You can adjust the time delay between the occurrence of a short circuit and the time the track
actually gets shut off by the breaker. The EB3 comes factory set to 100mS (1/10 second).
This setting has been chosen because it can be used without problem on most layouts. If
your booster shuts down before the EB3 you can shorten this delay.
Any DCC system that has OPS mode programming (Program On the Main) for locomotives
can adjust the response time. The EB3 will respond to OPS mode programming no matter
what locomotive address is used. We recommend choosing an address that is not used on
your layout (we use 9999).
To set the response time for track power district 1:
Install a shunt on the two pins marked "PROG" on the EB3
Use OPS mode programming to program CV49 to the number of milliseconds (divided by
10) you desire between 10mS and 500mS. A value of 1 = 10mS, a value of 20 = 200mS,
etc.
Remove the shunt when done programming.
CV49 sets the response time for Track 1
CV50 sets the response time for Track 2
CV51 sets the response time for Track 3.
Valid values for CV49 to CV51 range from 0 (no delay) to 63 (630 mS). Numbers larger than 63 will cause the default of 10 (100mS) to be used.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for the help, but sadly the EcoS is still cutting out first.

I has set CVs 49, 50 and 51 all to zero and checked them. I have also tried the current shunts in all the different locations with no joy. Perhaps they are not compatible!

I notice that from page 28 that the booster cut out time is for EXTERNAL boosters, I wonder dose that mean you can't adjust the internal boosters cut out time?

Thanks,

Rob
 

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QUOTE (80class @ 30 Jan 2008, 07:18) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks for the help, but sadly the EcoS is still cutting out first.

I has set CVs 49, 50 and 51 all to zero and checked them. I have also tried the current shunts in all the different locations with no joy. Perhaps they are not compatible!

I notice that from page 28 that the booster cut out time is for EXTERNAL boosters, I wonder dose that mean you can't adjust the internal boosters cut out time?

Thanks,

Rob

**Yes, but then the manual says on page 28

"These devices are displayed as if they are external to ECOS but The devices "ECoSniffer" "s88-Bus Control" and "External Booster Control" will always be displayed even if there are no external devices connected. These three devices are integrated into ECoS but are displayed as if they were external."

Go figure......

OK then, Back to the drawing board Rob:

The problem is real - this has hapenned with a couple of newer control systems where they have been configured with overly sensitive protection. It has affected previously OK products like auto reversers and overload protection devices of many brands.

For example Hornby Elite, Bachmann and ECOS all have the same sort of problems relating to some devices - and its hard to allocate responsibility either way really.... Usually this is changed by the Controller Mfg company eventually..... but it appears to have not been implemented yet with ECOS.

OK....

There is an adjustment for the current threshold in the ECOS on page 27 section 18 discusses it - (attached here) try setting it to maximum so the EB-3 reaches limit first.... ALSO - as a trial, reset the external booster time within ECOS to zero (as per previous page I attached).

If there is still no joy, then there is a workaround / Possible option:

I recommend this ONLY Providing that all parts of the layout are EB-3 protected. You can current limit the ECOS externally by connecting a reactive load that won't affect normal running but WILL stop it shutting down totally unless the short is long term and total. (ECOS will still always be safe if )

In series with one of the leads between EB-3 and ECOS, place low voltage car tail-light or similar light bulbs of a size that will give a load slightly higher than that at which you set the EB-3's.

Because this load is a reactive buffer it will prevent the instant recognition of a short by the ECOS, so the EB-3's will react faster.

a quick ohms law calc assuming ECOS track voltage is about 16 & we want a load capable of up to between 4 and just below 5 amps to be buffered says that we want a total load of bulbs equivalent to 65~75 watts max. a couple of tail-light bulbs in series may give this OK.

I Hope we are getting closer....

Kind regards
Richard
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks again Richard and yes we are getting closer, didn't get a chance to get near my layout toinght so i'll have to put off further testing until tomorrow.

Thanks,

Rob
 
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