Yes, I agree on what you say. Then again, most locos were quite a bit dirtier than the nice pristine models that we buy. Even the weathered versions are dirty in a clean sort of way. I think in the old days, soot, grime, oil and dust would have dulled most of those type of markings.
Electrical signs on steam locomotives
A couple of steam locomotives that I bought recently have electrical signs on them. I assume these are to warn people walking on the running plate about possible overhead wires. (Is this correct?) I think these are garish and I can't remember them as a lad when I was trainspotting about 1955 - 1958. Can anyone tell me what year they were introduced? I think I'm going to remove them anyway as I think they look totally wrong for a 1950's layout. Perhaps I should have bought the version with the earlier emblem but I'm not fussy about which ones I have.
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I'm sure I can recall the overhead warning flashes on steam locos in the late 1950s, even on the Southern Region which was predominately 3rd rail (no warning signs for that!). There were some areas (sidings and goods branches in particular) where they put in OHL for the first electro-diesels to pick up on via pantograph when third rail would be hazardous to shunters
The warnings were definately on Eastern Region locos working out of Liverpool Street under the OHL on the electrified Stratford/Ilford/Southend route at that time; seen during many hours spent trainspotting at Stratford.
I suspect that BR slapped them on all locos, particularly the standard classes, so that if a loco was moved to (or even passing through) an area with OHL the warnings were there for all to see.
Regards,
John
PS Just thought to have a look in my ABC Combined Volume for Winter 1961 - the last I ever had. The photos in this suggest that the signs were distributed as follows:
WR: Virtually no loco seems to carry them
SR: Most locos did not. Those that did seem to be mostly the West Country/Battle of Britain and the Merchant Navies.
MR: Quite a few did
ER: Quite a lot did, at least those likely to be around the London area.
Standards: Warning flashes carried without exception.
John
The warnings were definately on Eastern Region locos working out of Liverpool Street under the OHL on the electrified Stratford/Ilford/Southend route at that time; seen during many hours spent trainspotting at Stratford.
I suspect that BR slapped them on all locos, particularly the standard classes, so that if a loco was moved to (or even passing through) an area with OHL the warnings were there for all to see.
Regards,
John
PS Just thought to have a look in my ABC Combined Volume for Winter 1961 - the last I ever had. The photos in this suggest that the signs were distributed as follows:
WR: Virtually no loco seems to carry them
SR: Most locos did not. Those that did seem to be mostly the West Country/Battle of Britain and the Merchant Navies.
MR: Quite a few did
ER: Quite a lot did, at least those likely to be around the London area.
Standards: Warning flashes carried without exception.
John
Started about 1960, added as locos went thro shops, photos in the abc combine would mostly been more than 6 months old.
The Western, as always, wasn't keen to add them, but it was pointed out that some times their bigger locos would be working under overhead wires like Crewe.It is correct to run the older emblem without warning flashes, as they came in 1957. It was very rare for the flash signs to be completely covered by grime, as they were normally positioned in prominent places that were least likely to get grimey - but some one will proove me wrong.
Paul M.
The Western, as always, wasn't keen to add them, but it was pointed out that some times their bigger locos would be working under overhead wires like Crewe.It is correct to run the older emblem without warning flashes, as they came in 1957. It was very rare for the flash signs to be completely covered by grime, as they were normally positioned in prominent places that were least likely to get grimey - but some one will proove me wrong.
Paul M.
A couple of points - it wasn't the electro diesels that used the SR overhead it was the class 71 electrics. The only places I know for certain that had this were Hither Green and Shepherdswell. The class 71's carried the flashes almost from new.
I think the reason the Bulleids had them was becase of the original casing.
And lastly don't forget the latest version, as carried by main line cleared steam locos is different to the original.
Regards
I think the reason the Bulleids had them was becase of the original casing.
And lastly don't forget the latest version, as carried by main line cleared steam locos is different to the original.
Regards
QUOTE (BRITHO @ 13 Dec 2007, 13:43) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>A couple of points - it wasn't the electro diesels that used the SR overhead it was the class 71 electrics. The only places I know for certain that had this were Hither Green and Shepherdswell. The class 71's carried the flashes almost from new.
Silly me! Yes, I always got the E5000s electric only (class 71) mixed up with the later E6000s electro-diesels (class 73) - the latter came in just as I was abandoning trainspotting for the dread 'O' and 'A' levels.
There was overhead equipment on part of the Angerstein Wharf branch in SE London between 1960 and 1976, and I sometimes saw a class 71 on the branch where it crosses the 'Lower Road' between Greenwich and Charlton. The branch is still in use, I anderstand, for aggregate traffic.
Regards,
John
Silly me! Yes, I always got the E5000s electric only (class 71) mixed up with the later E6000s electro-diesels (class 73) - the latter came in just as I was abandoning trainspotting for the dread 'O' and 'A' levels.
There was overhead equipment on part of the Angerstein Wharf branch in SE London between 1960 and 1976, and I sometimes saw a class 71 on the branch where it crosses the 'Lower Road' between Greenwich and Charlton. The branch is still in use, I anderstand, for aggregate traffic.
Regards,
John
And just to confuse the issue 10 of the class 71's were converted into the class 74 electro-diesels by the simple expedient of removing the overhead equipment and sticking in a generating set.
Regards
Regards
According to the SEMG and Southern Electric websites:-
The rebuilding of this class was a major operation, which called for the entire body to be dismantled down to the frames and then rebuilt. BR Crewe works performed the rebuilding installing a Paxman 6YJXL high speed diesel engine of 650hp coupled to an English Electric EE843 generator. The original 2,500hp booster set and four traction motors were retained from the class 71. Considerable modifications were made to the bodysides to allow ventilation of the diesel engine and also for the superstructure to bear some of the increased weight. The original bogies also had to be modified. The pantographs were removed and the roof recess rebuilt.
Hardly a simple expedient!
The rebuilding of this class was a major operation, which called for the entire body to be dismantled down to the frames and then rebuilt. BR Crewe works performed the rebuilding installing a Paxman 6YJXL high speed diesel engine of 650hp coupled to an English Electric EE843 generator. The original 2,500hp booster set and four traction motors were retained from the class 71. Considerable modifications were made to the bodysides to allow ventilation of the diesel engine and also for the superstructure to bear some of the increased weight. The original bogies also had to be modified. The pantographs were removed and the roof recess rebuilt.
Hardly a simple expedient!
And all I asked was when the signs first appeared on steam engines. It's amazing where the simplest of questions will lead.
QUOTE (Robert Stokes @ 14 Dec 2007, 11:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>And all I asked was when the signs first appeared on steam engines. It's amazing where the simplest of questions will lead.
You should know by now we rarely stay exactly on topic for long - that's why we're here I think.
Regards
You should know by now we rarely stay exactly on topic for long - that's why we're here I think.
Regards
All the signs are the modern ones though - I think they are the ones that the last HSE thing brought in - Maybe hornby and bachmann only have the one set - Maybe they should supply them as seperate transfers for you to add if you want them or not !
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