Hi Again Folks
After being off the grid for a week, which has included many hours researching 4472, I have decided definitely TO CONTINUE
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to build this model and I have listed below my reasons for reaching this decision.
1) Although there has been much derision of this model, I have confirmed to my satisfaction the following:-
The model reflects 4472 in its condition circa April - October 1928. RH drive, modified to LNER loading gauge sizes - cab roof height reduced etc, correct short Splasher nameplates which are set back from front face, no front steps, cut outs on front buffer beam, correct corridor tender - but will it include the RH only single coal rail, we wait to see. The only point I still have some queries about is the BACK HEAD. The white metal one is definitely an original A1 in as built condition RH drive, but these were in the original GNR loading gauge cabs i.e. - higher roof. On my model this back head fouls the underside of the cab roof. The original plastic back head is also from 1928 but is an A3. A3's were built in RH or LH drive. Therefore when the cab height was reduced was the A1 back head modified in any way during the GENERAL repairs Doncaster 14/2 - 5/4/1928? The picture of the finished cab in the magazine shows a slightly different detail layout on the original plastic back head, than the step by step instructions, combined with a RH drive position. The RCTS part 2A Locomotives of the LNER has a good page of photo's Fig 19 & 20. As was pointed out earlier this is somewhat esoteric and I personally have not yet decided which back head I will use or whether I will dig further. As an observation has anyone else noticed if you stand both back heads together on their bases, the die cast one leans towards the front the front of the loco. This means when fixed to the inside front face of the cab, the bottom will only touch the cab floor at the rear end. So to provide clearance between the dial gauges on the back head & cab roof, a small amount can be filed of this rear edge. Perhaps this is what they did in Doncaster, ''maybe''. However I have just discovered another photo in Yeadon's register, page 74, showing the cab of 2567. Although this has the later bucket seats, the back head seems to be an A1 with the 3 dial gauges on the top right repositioned in a line, and the small valve control wheels angled downwards. This improves clearance to the cab roof.
This debating point illustrates the problem of just stating a year for this model. Someone could accurately build a 1928 version with, high cab roof, chimney, dome, safety valves, die cast back head, square ended buffer beam, polished wheel rims & polished brass edges to the splashers, with GNR 1922 non corridor tender. This model would then be totally correct for Jan and early Feb 1928.
2) I will motorise the model but as I already have a controller, I shall buy a motor, gearbox, pick ups and track length separately. I do not belong to an 'O' gauge club or have access to an 'O' gauge layout therefore it is not a problem for me personally that it is not for continuous use, but I do feel a model of this size & detail should move. One problem does arise from motorising this model, which at the moment I do not know if the part work will cover. This is for motor/electrical access when finished do you, a) leave the boiler only so it can be removed or,
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make the whole upper foot plate assembly removable? Thinking of this highlighted why the motor offered had to be small, there is no hole in the cab front therefore length wise any motor/ gearbox has to fit between centre axle and cab front.
3) I have also carried out some dimensional checking, against a drawing, of the foot plate, cab & boiler sub assembly after my foot plate modifications. Without being a rivet counter, everything is dimensionally where it should be within a very small tolerance.
4) The next item to confirm is the correct colour scheme, which from my delving last week seems to indicate that the green was changed during the above general repair to LNER shade not the old GNR shade? Any comments anyone.
Positive tip 1 for novices, (experienced members will probably do this anyway) :-
When discussing the foot plate casting earlier, I stated I had already spray primed the item, this is a trick I learned in a development shop when at work. On any casting, even very good ones there is cleaning up, fettling and filing operations to be carried out, i.e. hiding the ejector pin outlines on the underside, gate marks and pits in the edges. When you file the primed part it becomes apparent very quickly where you have to remove metal or have to fill low points or chips giving a better finish component.
Positive tip 2 for novices,
For someone who has not got a steady hand, painting pipe work can be difficult, so at this scale I pre-bend each pipe, leaving each one slightly longer than required. I then use a stiff modelling clay or plastercine ball to stick the pipes into, then spray paint them. For further info, at the moment for BRASS & COPPER finishes I prefer 'Plasti-kote' quick drying enamel which gives more natural colour finish. This is available in 100ml spray cans and 59ml jars.
Detail variation 1, which I have in work at present is, instead of painting the small die cast metal sight glasses on the
back plate white, which does not look quite right, I have cut this square section out and am going to replace it with a clear plastic section. I have scraped, NOT filed, some clear plastic sprue from my bits box, into a square section to match the die cast piece removed. This worked well but then not being satisfied I am now trying to polish it clearer with a mini drill & jewellers rouge so that I can show the white back with the diagonal lines on. This is part way there but not clear enough yet.
Detail variation 2, not yet designed, is to have sliding windows in the cab if the kit does not provide them. Whilst on
this subject has anyone else had the fun of filing out these fitted windows then fixing the internal plate to give the window rebates, which are consistent. bianco55 if you thought fitting the windows was challenging wait till you try the above I had hours of fun.
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As I have not reached issue 47 yet, I cannot offer a definitive answer to sidings question but it does seem an odd material to use as a retainer. In certain circumstances it is a good material for bearings but these are usually large area pressure lubricated. I can see I will have this joy to come soon.
Cor blimey, I must stop now and actually do some work on the model,
Cheerio for now
mike
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After being off the grid for a week, which has included many hours researching 4472, I have decided definitely TO CONTINUE
1) Although there has been much derision of this model, I have confirmed to my satisfaction the following:-
The model reflects 4472 in its condition circa April - October 1928. RH drive, modified to LNER loading gauge sizes - cab roof height reduced etc, correct short Splasher nameplates which are set back from front face, no front steps, cut outs on front buffer beam, correct corridor tender - but will it include the RH only single coal rail, we wait to see. The only point I still have some queries about is the BACK HEAD. The white metal one is definitely an original A1 in as built condition RH drive, but these were in the original GNR loading gauge cabs i.e. - higher roof. On my model this back head fouls the underside of the cab roof. The original plastic back head is also from 1928 but is an A3. A3's were built in RH or LH drive. Therefore when the cab height was reduced was the A1 back head modified in any way during the GENERAL repairs Doncaster 14/2 - 5/4/1928? The picture of the finished cab in the magazine shows a slightly different detail layout on the original plastic back head, than the step by step instructions, combined with a RH drive position. The RCTS part 2A Locomotives of the LNER has a good page of photo's Fig 19 & 20. As was pointed out earlier this is somewhat esoteric and I personally have not yet decided which back head I will use or whether I will dig further. As an observation has anyone else noticed if you stand both back heads together on their bases, the die cast one leans towards the front the front of the loco. This means when fixed to the inside front face of the cab, the bottom will only touch the cab floor at the rear end. So to provide clearance between the dial gauges on the back head & cab roof, a small amount can be filed of this rear edge. Perhaps this is what they did in Doncaster, ''maybe''. However I have just discovered another photo in Yeadon's register, page 74, showing the cab of 2567. Although this has the later bucket seats, the back head seems to be an A1 with the 3 dial gauges on the top right repositioned in a line, and the small valve control wheels angled downwards. This improves clearance to the cab roof.
This debating point illustrates the problem of just stating a year for this model. Someone could accurately build a 1928 version with, high cab roof, chimney, dome, safety valves, die cast back head, square ended buffer beam, polished wheel rims & polished brass edges to the splashers, with GNR 1922 non corridor tender. This model would then be totally correct for Jan and early Feb 1928.
2) I will motorise the model but as I already have a controller, I shall buy a motor, gearbox, pick ups and track length separately. I do not belong to an 'O' gauge club or have access to an 'O' gauge layout therefore it is not a problem for me personally that it is not for continuous use, but I do feel a model of this size & detail should move. One problem does arise from motorising this model, which at the moment I do not know if the part work will cover. This is for motor/electrical access when finished do you, a) leave the boiler only so it can be removed or,
3) I have also carried out some dimensional checking, against a drawing, of the foot plate, cab & boiler sub assembly after my foot plate modifications. Without being a rivet counter, everything is dimensionally where it should be within a very small tolerance.
4) The next item to confirm is the correct colour scheme, which from my delving last week seems to indicate that the green was changed during the above general repair to LNER shade not the old GNR shade? Any comments anyone.
Positive tip 1 for novices, (experienced members will probably do this anyway) :-
When discussing the foot plate casting earlier, I stated I had already spray primed the item, this is a trick I learned in a development shop when at work. On any casting, even very good ones there is cleaning up, fettling and filing operations to be carried out, i.e. hiding the ejector pin outlines on the underside, gate marks and pits in the edges. When you file the primed part it becomes apparent very quickly where you have to remove metal or have to fill low points or chips giving a better finish component.
Positive tip 2 for novices,
For someone who has not got a steady hand, painting pipe work can be difficult, so at this scale I pre-bend each pipe, leaving each one slightly longer than required. I then use a stiff modelling clay or plastercine ball to stick the pipes into, then spray paint them. For further info, at the moment for BRASS & COPPER finishes I prefer 'Plasti-kote' quick drying enamel which gives more natural colour finish. This is available in 100ml spray cans and 59ml jars.
Detail variation 1, which I have in work at present is, instead of painting the small die cast metal sight glasses on the
back plate white, which does not look quite right, I have cut this square section out and am going to replace it with a clear plastic section. I have scraped, NOT filed, some clear plastic sprue from my bits box, into a square section to match the die cast piece removed. This worked well but then not being satisfied I am now trying to polish it clearer with a mini drill & jewellers rouge so that I can show the white back with the diagonal lines on. This is part way there but not clear enough yet.
Detail variation 2, not yet designed, is to have sliding windows in the cab if the kit does not provide them. Whilst on
this subject has anyone else had the fun of filing out these fitted windows then fixing the internal plate to give the window rebates, which are consistent. bianco55 if you thought fitting the windows was challenging wait till you try the above I had hours of fun.
As I have not reached issue 47 yet, I cannot offer a definitive answer to sidings question but it does seem an odd material to use as a retainer. In certain circumstances it is a good material for bearings but these are usually large area pressure lubricated. I can see I will have this joy to come soon.
Cor blimey, I must stop now and actually do some work on the model,
Cheerio for now
mike
