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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi

Opinions on this set of circumstances would be much appreciated.

I recently started building a layout using FLM DCC kit with a Twin Center controller. I have three locos, two new fromFLM and the third a second hand FLM, from Germany, which has had a chip (6876) fitted in the UK. Prior to the using the second hand loco, no problems, running lights on as required and very smooth.

Since I've started using the second hand loco the running running lights, on any loco, only come on when on even numbers on the power controller, on odd and off the running lights are off, however of more concern is stopping this loco. On ocassions it will stop when contol returned to zero and on others it runs on up to 15cm. A pain when shunting into sidings and has resulted in minor damage to stock. My original 'new' locos continue to work well and stop when zero selected on controller. The only minor issue with these is that of the running lights.

If anybody can shed light on what is going on I would be grateful.

Many thanks

Nigel
 

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QUOTE (S&D @ 16 May 2008, 04:06) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi

Opinions on this set of circumstances would be much appreciated.

I recently started building a layout using FLM DCC kit with a Twin Center controller. I have three locos, two new fromFLM and the third a second hand FLM, from Germany, which has had a chip (6876) fitted in the UK. Prior to the using the second hand loco, no problems, running lights on as required and very smooth.

Since I've started using the second hand loco the running running lights, on any loco, only come on when on even numbers on the power controller, on odd and off the running lights are off, however of more concern is stopping this loco. On ocassions it will stop when contol returned to zero and on others it runs on up to 15cm. A pain when shunting into sidings and has resulted in minor damage to stock. My original 'new' locos continue to work well and stop when zero selected on controller. The only minor issue with these is that of the running lights.

If anybody can shed light on what is going on I would be grateful.

Many thanks

Nigel

***These are symptoms of a mismatch in speed steps between decoder and controller.

Make sure the decoder in the loco and the FLM twin centre are both set to 28 or 128 speed steps. If a decoder is set to 14 and the controller to 28 or 128 this problem will always occur with any decoder brand.

If you set CV29 to 6, then the decoder will be set to 28/128 speed steps - then all you need to do is make sure the controller is set to the same

Richard
DCCconcepts
 

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Further to Richards advice - if this does not cure the problem then change the decoder to a Lenz, ESU, TCS or similar. Some FLN locos can be tight on decoder space - what locomotive is it BTW ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 16 May 2008, 02:59) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>***These are symptoms of a mismatch in speed steps between decoder and controller.

Make sure the decoder in the loco and the FLM twin centre are both set to 28 or 128 speed steps. If a decoder is set to 14 and the controller to 28 or 128 this problem will always occur with any decoder brand.

If you set CV29 to 6, then the decoder will be set to 28/128 speed steps - then all you need to do is make sure the controller is set to the same

Richard
DCCconcepts

Thanks for your response. I'm sorry I don't understand what CV29 means. Have looked in FLM handbook, not much help. In fact I feel that handbook is of little help in any respect, but thats another issue.
 

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QUOTE (S&D @ 16 May 2008, 11:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks for your response. I'm sorry I don't understand what CV29 means. Have looked in FLM handbook, not much help. In fact I feel that handbook is of little help in any respect, but thats another issue.
A common observation about the handbook.

Use the programming track with the TC in programming mode & select CV29 then change the value to 8.

If you still don't have any luck send me a PM & I'll talk you through it on the phone.
 

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There has got to be a market for someone to produce a plain english version of the Twin Center handbook!
It is one of the most frustrating guides ever written!!!

60134
 

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QUOTE (60134 @ 16 May 2008, 20:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>There has got to be a market for someone to produce a plain english version of the Twin Center handbook!
It is one of the most frustrating guides ever written!!!

60134

Agreed, but I'd wager there's a good chance that with the changes at FLM, that too may change - one of the factors pointed to in their problems was the insistence in using their own digital vs following a world trend!

Richard
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 16 May 2008, 13:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Agreed, but I'd wager there's a good chance that with the changes at FLM, that too may change - one of the factors pointed to in their problems was the insistence in using their own digital vs following a world trend!

Richard

Oh s*** Does this mean that my new kit will become obsolete?

Thanks you eveyone for their help.

Nigel
 

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QUOTE Oh .... Does this mean that my new kit will become obsolete?

I would have thought that the installed base of loyal users was too large for it to be dropped in the short time. What is more likely to happen is that a new system is developed which supports the original system in a backwards compatibility mode but whose primary mode of operation is NMRA. Think of ESU and their multi protocol Maerklin / NMRA products. Of course this assumes that at the basic signalling level the FLM is compatible with NMRA, I don't know to that level of detail.

In other words, I think your investment is safe enough for a few years anyway.

David
 

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QUOTE (S&D @ 16 May 2008, 19:01) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Oh s*** Does this mean that my new kit will become obsolete?
Nigel
No not at all - the FLM TC is a rebadged Uhelbrook Intellibox that will also control FLM FMZ. It is a fully DCC spec'ed unit so apart from having a total of 9 functions it will last you for a long time.

It's possible that FLM FMZ will be dropped, but there are actually a surprising number of FMZ users about - just watch how much FMZ fetches on fleabay - one thing about FLM is their loyalty to support users of older technology, this may or may not change in the future.

Are you running DCC or FMZ ?
 

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QUOTE (dwb @ 16 May 2008, 19:25) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>What is more likely to happen is that a new system is developed which supports the original system in a backwards compatibility mode but whose primary mode of operation is NMRA.
David
This is exactly the case with the FLM Twin-Centre - it supports DCC as in NMRA, FLM FMZ & Trix (Selectrix I think).
 

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I think that what is likely to happen is that while the protocol will continue to be supported by Uhlenbrock, development of it will stop. This is also likely to happen with the Motorola protocol as well (although you could argue that MFX is a further development of Motorola). A big indicator in my view was Fleischman's decesion to put loksound3.5 into their sound equipped locomotives and not develop a FMZ sound chip.

The fact that ESU and Zimo do not support FMZ was always a concern.

Unfortunately it comes down to Market share.

John
 

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If the TC handbook is so bad (I cannot offer an opinion, not having seen it), I suggest that it would be worth looking at the Uhlenbrock Intellibox one. As Brian Considine has pointed out, the TC is a rebadged Intellibox; I expect that, apart from programming FMZ decoders, programming procedures and general use are the same. The handbook is available on the website (www.uhlenbrock.de) in comprehensible English. With one or two minor exceptions I have found it comprehensive and easy to follow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'm getting it sorted slowly, the TW is all singing and dancing is it not. Anyway, thanks to everybody for their help and suggestions.


Nigel
 
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