QUOTE (Makemineadouble @ 19 Sep 2006, 17:34)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>I'm suprised that the tooling would be that cheap. I personally don't think it would be a commercial sucess. How many units do you think the Blue Pullman would sell ? 5000 - 7000 perhaps, and then not all at once. Thats adding say 10 quid a unit just for the tooling costs. Although I model the period when it appeared, I would never consider one for my layout which will firmly remain in the Steam Era. Far better milage can be had for that type of money, build a decent 4F, and a 2P without tender drive and I'll have 1/2 a dozen.
You've hit the nail on the head there exactly Makemineadouble,-
you've got the point I was making!
Hornby [and the other mainstream r-t-r manufacturers] need to sell in the magnitudes of
tens of thousands of a model to make it viable,and I think I'd agree with you on those potential sales figures...
Okay,Pedro,-to address some of your points,-yes,from what I understand it costs about £10K for a body tool,-so I don't see how you get to your overall figure of £35-40K,-it doesn't add up!,-bodies aren't the only thing,you've got underframes,bogies,interiors,glazings,and a load of smaller detail bits to take into consideration,and for a r-t-r version you've got all the mechanical bits on top of this all adding to the costs..
Research and Development
So far we've only touched on the actual tooling costs,but before you get to that stage you've got the research,-it all takes time,and time is money,-you have employ someone to study the real thing,and as there isn't a Blue Pullman preserved this isn't going to be easy..you can't just go out and measure it and photograph it...[like you can with a Bullied,for instance],you've got to work from plans and existing photo's,and as we all know,what actually got built didn't always accord with what was on the plan,and I think that I'm on a safe bet saying that not every part of the Blue Pullman was the subject of a nice,clear,detailed photograph..
Once the prototype has been studied,the model then has to be designed,and with 5 different vehicles to do,the Blue Pullman isn't going to be a quick and easy job,even with CAD to help you,and it doesn't share any components with anything else,so no shortcuts there...
And it's got to be accurate,to meet current standards,and avoid criticism...
Then marketing,with pricing etc..
All in all,quite a mammoth task,and huge investment of time and money before any return was seen,-so would it be the best use of resources?,would it return a large enough profit to justify the initial outlay?-during the time they took on the Blue Pullman R&D they could be developing other products that could be got into the shops quicker and could be earning money sooner....
QUOTE He actually seems like a very nice person and always open to new ideas and always reasonable in his arguments.
Well,-I agree with you here,-
but the Blue Pullman isn't a new idea,is it? -It's a subject that the've looked at and discounted,-it's not one that's under 'consideration',-so any 'lobbying' is pointless..
QUOTE I actually disagree that its not viable. i think he along with D.C.Kits have underestimated the demand.
I don't think anyone is denying that there is a demand,-but how big is it?,- here are
2 manufacturers that
don't think that there is enough demand to make it
cost effective for them to produce a model, and,-especially in the case of Hornby,-
to make a large enough profit!,ie. not viable..
BTW,I wasn't whingeing,-I was merely stating a fact..and, yes,-I do know the difference between whingeing and lobbying,and what is posted by some of the Blue Pullman fans [not neccesarily you,Pedro] definately sounds like whingeing!
QUOTE someone mentioned the GWR single. even if it is to be made into one of the thomas models, there is still more demand for the BP than there is for the single.
Well,-that's purely subjective,have you any hard facts to back it up?
But,-and this is what I've been trying to get across all along,-Hornby clearly see a potential to make a
profit with the GWR single..obviously less initial costs,-a retool for the chassis to take a modern motor etc,and probably a few tweaks to the body to titivate it a bit,and you have a loco with wider appeal,including as 'Emily', the kiddywinks,-not a market you'd tap into with an expensive Blue Pullman!
QUOTE Its inevitable that one day someone is going to produce the BP its just a case of who.
Not Hornby,-probably Intercity Models,-but that's because Peter's motivation probably must be different,-he'd do it because he wanted to,-not because he'd think he'd make a large profit.