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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Evenin' all, I'm still around and enjoying reading the threads. I haven't got the decluttering to the point were I can start building yet, I suspect it may take some time.
What I have been doing is accumulating some stock and I'm having a couple of problems. I intend running mainly freight, and, being S&C, mostly coal/limestone. To that end I've been buying mineral wagons and have got several of the old Hornby 16T minerals. The old couplings are far too big, with a hollow rivet in the middle and a locating lug at each side. I bought a Dremel and a few packs of the supposedly right size screws, but they are too small. Obviously one solution is larger screws, but it occurs to me that there will be many different options that some of you will have used.
Any advice/ suggestions would be appreciated.

The same goes for my second issue. I bought 6 coaches (new) and decided to put people and LED lights in them. I'm trying two options....three with 12v and track pickup, three with 3V and battery fed.
I have yet to succeed in taking the body off a coach without breaking at least one of the holding "lugs" off.
I've tried warming it up and sliding a credit card along, but no joy. There's clearly a "Knack" which I haven't got !!

Cheers
John
 

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I have a huge number of old wagons some as old as the late '50's and over 500 Wrenn wagons and they all have the big loops, they couple fine with the modern tension locks and the interim size as well. more a problem can be the height of the modern coupling as those old ones are consistant, its up to you but you are creating work so now if you do decide to go the modern route then you have to decide which coupling to standardise on, right now making these choices really matters so for instance
1. What track, code 100, code 75 Bullhead code 75
2. which (if any) DCC system to use
3. choice of coaching stock
4. Type of layout with roundy, shunting, etc
5. Period of interst such as 1962 end of steam?
6. Check out (by asking us) what stock you decide upon, for instance you might want a Clayton Hydrite train towed by a 9F
7. Specific specials such as the mechanical stoker 9F that worked out of Birmingham as far as Carlisle.
There are lots of options and decisions to make and take and once you are committed it is costly to change, because I have those old wagons I chose code 100 and new is the bullhead which i would likely chose now, that would screw up the underlay as well as I say decisions are needed sooner than later.
Good luck but do ask, cheaper than a mistake you regret later.
 

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Hi John,
If I could make a suggestion: If you taken those huge Volvo bumpers off, you could use Kadee couplers. It means an initial outlay, but is paid back in spades when they are fitted properly. I've used them exclusively for everything I run and I'm really pleased with them. A Kadee height gauge and trip pin adjusting pliers sees them fitted at the correct height and cheap neodymium magnets sees to uncoupling. If you decide to go this way, we can help you.

For the coaches, it probably boils down to maybe you just need to persevere. I know some can be more difficult than others but the credit card type of things are the way to go. I usually carefully slide a modelling knife blade in between the chassis and side of the coach, followed by a card. This is done where each lug is located.

For lighting, are you DC or DCC?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi Kris, thank you for your reply. I've bought quite a few wagons, some with different couplings and even some with 3 link. I put three trains, with different couplings, side by side on parallel track. The gap between wagons was almost the same on the Bachmann minerals with the modern coupling and the three link ones. The older couplings had a huge gap, so I thought I may change them for the Bachmann ones. I do intend having one train with three link, just for the hell of it LOL!

I'll be going code 100 so I can run older stock. I will be DCC when/if I live long enough to build it
BR mk1 type coaching stock is the plan, one train in Maroon and one in Crimson and Cream with a couple of suburbans and a parcel coach for the locals. I don't intend doing any shunting, hence the three link one, more likely to keep full trains in a large yard (Tinsley Yard being rather appropriate
) with kaydee on the first wagon/coach and the loco's for "hands free" coupling.

4f's, 8f's, 9f's, WD's and Super D's pulling long mineral trains is the idea. (though not necessarily prototypical)
One of the suggestions from the forum was to incorporate a passing loop a la Blea moor and I think I'll go with that and include the recently constructed siding into Arcow quarry (not sure that may have existing back in the day), which has to travel north to Blea moor and then run around in the loop, to travel south. I've bought some oil burners, Class45, a DMU and a prototype Deltic which they tested on the S&C with 20 on and the "twins" 10000/1. I remember seeing those quite often in my youth.

Cheers and thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi Hoonsou, thank you for your reply. I've just replied to Kris, which will address some of your questions. I've already done some coaches (DC at the mo') and my biggest fear by far is breaking the lugs. I've used the cards but can't pluck up the courage to give it a good pull. Perhaps it's a confidence thing.
On the battery operated ones, I've put the battery in the undercarriage so I don't need to keep removing the body.
I intend to go with the kadees, but to fit them on all my rolling stock is just too expensive. The price of stuff for this hobby has really surprised me. It really brought it home to me when I had a tiny EM coupling in my hand which counts for more than £1...

Cheers
 

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As Kristopher suggests, we all have to graft away at 'making it work' when attempting to use RTR OO product to operate full size trains in a realistic manner. While the current RTR productions are vastly superior to 'the old stuff' of the 1950s to 1990s, there are still shortcomings to be worked around to achieve reliable operation. That's what I was about yesterday evening, 'working up' a train of mainly lowfits with no load, to make them unconditionally reliable, pushed or pulled over any point formation: long story short, removal of steel weights, substitution of twice the volume of lead sheet to get them up to circa 38g. I wouldn't normally have to do this, but this train requires a propelling shunt on a branch, and these models are just too light.

QUOTE (John Tinsley @ 15 Mar 2021, 02:36) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>...with kadee on the first wagon/coach and the loco's for "hands free" coupling...
I too use Kadees for their first class performance; but exactly as you describe, only for the loco to train coupling on all passenger trains, and have a stock of wagons with one Kadee to enable all Kadee equipped locos to work freight. Within trains I use other cheaper couplers, more below.

QUOTE (John Tinsley @ 15 Mar 2021, 02:36) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>... I put three trains, with different couplings, side by side on parallel track. The gap between wagons was almost the same on the Bachmann minerals with the modern coupling and the three link ones...
A modification that I and others employ on the Bachmann miniature tension locks is to shorten the coupler pocket and the 'prongs' that are the coupler mount. Then your loose coupled wagons can be got to buffer up when pushed, and separate when pulled with 2mm between the buffer faces, essentially scale separation. This requires a minimum 24" radius throughout the layout, plain track and points. The gain in the appearance of the whole train well worthwhile, closer coupled than with useable- I.E. well overscale - three links, and with full bufferlocking protection.

QUOTE (John Tinsley @ 15 Mar 2021, 02:36) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>... BR mk1 type coaching stock is the plan, one train in Maroon and one in Crimson and Cream with a couple of suburbans and a parcel coach for the locals...
The Bachmann mk1 range 'has it all' in terms of vehicle choice. Use the Hornby R8220 coupler inside each train and the close coupling is very good. But it takes work to get the mechanism working optimally and the gangway faceplates moving smoothly when in contact, powdered graphite is a good lubricant.

QUOTE (John Tinsley @ 15 Mar 2021, 02:36) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>...4f's, 8f's, 9f's, WD's and Super D's pulling long mineral trains is the idea... I've bought some oil burners, Class45, a DMU and a prototype Deltic which they tested on the S&C with 20 on and the "twins" 10000/1...
Big question, is the layout going to have gradients? The Hornby 8F needs upweighting to handle a full size train on 1 in 100. I have finally got around to putting a H-D 8F body on the current Hornby 8F mechanism to supply the weight required for traction. (Alternatively, if you like the ringfield H-D 8F as it stands, that will do the job.) Bach's WD and Super D likewise need more weight, but this is simple enough to achieve: remove the supplied ballast, fill solid with lead and they have all the grunt required.

The others mentioned will be good as they stand - three or four 4Fs up front is the Midland way - and you will need the Bach 9F, not the Hornby: although the all new version to come from Hornby may modify that verdict!

The EXPENSE!

No denying it, your wallet will feel it. But the big thing about this hobby is that relatively modest annual expenditure on the right stuff yields an impressive model railway as the years go on. Keep your eye on the long term goal, and enjoy the process!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited by Moderator)
34C, thank you very much for your detailed advice. It certainly is expensive, but, as most of you will have acquired your stock over a longish period of time, I've done it over a couple of months. I'm spending my time "building" trains that I envisage. Long coal trains by NCB and private owners, limestone trains from the quarry, etc and really enjoying doing it, which is the object of the exercise.
Do you have any suggestions to add re; removing coach bodies? The coaches I'm doing at he moment are Hornby "tourist 2nd".

Regards
John
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Just to add to your comment about inclines 34C. I've now got 4 4f's 2 Hornby and 2 Airfix (I know, but I have a "soft spot" for them and they're cheap). I set up a length of track on some 2"x 1" that ran from front to back in my house, a distance of some 35ft and carefully set the grade at 1/100. I ran each of my loco's, then added coaches 2 at a time. All 4 4f's took six coaches, (which is all I had at the time) 3 without a problem, 1 with a great deal of squealing, which revealed missing traction tyres on 3 of the four wheels. That was DC, relying on rail joiners for power. So I'm quite pleased with them on a "pull for pound" basis.

Cheers
 

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QUOTE (John Tinsley @ 15 Mar 2021, 13:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>...Do you have any suggestions to add re; removing coach bodies? The coaches I'm doing at he moment are Hornby "tourist 2nd".
As 'Hoonsou' described above, easing the sides outwards and slipping in pieces of card or plastic to keep the lugs disengaged is the way: but also on Hornby you may observe transparent lugs that are part of the glazing mouldings that need to be released, these will be seen on the underside in the corners. I have relatively few Hornby coaches so don't know if this is generally applicable to their entire range, but is the case on the traditional style Pullman cars. These transparent lugs are brittle, but the appearance on reassembly isn't affected if they break off, in my experience to date.
QUOTE (John Tinsley @ 15 Mar 2021, 14:02) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>... which revealed missing traction tyres...
Traction tyres are a matter of preference. I avoid any OO model requiring these, as they fail quite rapidly, dirtying the track as they do so, and reduce opportunity for electrical pick up on the driven wheels which are the most effective for current collection. But as ever, YMMV.
 

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OK my turn again.
Right watch the budget, so a number of observations
1. I use 1 in 33 gradients not much different from the Lickey etc at 1 in 37, Rochsoles branch was 1 in 19 as was Checkerbent and the gradient on the underground alongside Martlebone (that was once steam hauled) Steeper than ! in 33 is a problem going down the S&D was nearly all 1 in 40, the GWR in Devon also 1 in 37 and 1 in 40.
2. You'll find it a nuisance and expensive to change all the couplings, the locos will all be to 'Hornby' standards and they all need to be universal so you can set up rakes with coupling mixes but Hornby at the loco end, guards vans can be swapped around so something different on each end.
3. Weights I use 5gr and 10gr tyre weights I have quite a lot of lead as well
4. The S&C had only one facing point north of Settle
5. The S&C was a through route so by the 60's you started to see more van trains brown fitted and BD containers on conflats and 3 plank wagons
6. The Bachmann 9F is superb and as there were 251 of them they were frequently seen.
7. Just about all my trains will tackle the 1 in 33 except the four coupled ones
8. How big are the rakes you are planning, I can make a max of 16, newer stock is lighter the Wrenns have alloy cast chassis and they run on metal tyres very easy but the 9F can tow them easily.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hi Kris, thanks for the input. I'm happy with a gradient around 1/100 and don't mind going around twice to achieve a decent clearance between levels. I'm hoping to be running rakes of about 23 or so mineral wagons. Similar with the vans. I don't mind adding weights if necessary. Both yourself and 34C have recommended the Bachmann 9F but I'll wait until the new Hornby one hits the streets and see what thats like. Your certainly right about the cost of swapping couplings. It's mostly the Hornby minerals, but I'm in no rush.

BD containers?? I'm familiar with the conflats wagons, but not those. (I'll Google them) I'm also now thinking of adding a Kirkby Stephen type station with it's lovely little goods shed. (Now a road transport depot)
A 4F with a suburban coach, parcels coach, a horse box and a couple of vans would go well!

I've finally opened a coach without breaking anything. I warmed it up on the radiator and gently eased the lugs with a small screwdriver. Doing the same thing cold, the lugs fly off.

Cheers
 

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You won't be the only one waiting to see the Hornby 9F, both for a good look over with the ruler, and to trial for its running qualities. Bachmann's model was introduced 15 years ago, while this business was still establishing its prescence as a peer competitor to Hornby. In going up against the long established 9F model in Hornby's range, it was very clear that Bachmann had 'pushed the boat out' to put clear water between the Hornby and their own introduction; and there is no doubt they succeeded. Very popular from the off, never that I know of offered at any really significant discount (I am always looking in hope!), and has been in Bachmann's catalogue every year since.

It looks right, and while there are an assortment of detail deficiencies that are visible, none of them are 'life-threatening'. Out on the layout, it has all the traction required, easily the heaviest RTR OO steam model available when introduced (unless you were buying UK kitbuilds or Korean brass) with a good drive: decent size motor, flywheel, 40:1 gear train arrangement which ran smoothly and 'never gives up', and that verdict is unchanged after 15 years running.
https://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index...age=Bachmann-9F

Hornby now have the proven technique to exceed this baseline, and I hope they really go for it. An all metal boiler as now seen on a good number of their productions would be a decent start.

The containers to go on 17'6" conflats: the variety of design is enormous. The 'B' group of full length covered containers for a conflat must be the most varied, and the suffix D type is one among many, but 'BD' seems to have stuck as the generic term.

QUOTE (John Tinsley @ 16 Mar 2021, 00:10) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>... finally opened a coach without breaking anything. I warmed it up on the radiator and gently eased the lugs with a small screwdriver. Doing the same thing cold, the lugs fly off...
Your first tip! Being a clumsy and impatient type I just breaks them...
 

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Had a few hours running 5 lines and multiple changeovers and everything ran smoothly so

1, The Wrenn wagon gaps a quite tight and any tighter they would not make the corners

2. I do not know how much space you have, my layout is 4m x 5.2m so corners are R4 and better and all the curved points are streamline nothing set track.

3. Conflats I want some more but specifically Speedfreight (silver with yellow band,) Door to door (maroon with double arrow logo) and some with the crests also maroon because this was taking off back then, easy to lift off the wagons and onto trucks remember watching them with the Scammell scarabs dashing about picking up and delivering same.

4. Generally to allow for some underlay and the depth of the viaduct/bridge arches you have an absolutely a minimum height of 80mm you need something like 67 for the locos as it happens this is the height of the Hornby bridges

5. My railway has heights of 132 mm this being the deck height of the Metcalfe viaduct but this can be cut down or extended if need be I've done both multiple times.

6. an interesting variant on the 9F theme is the Hornby Franco Crosti 9F seen here atop a Metcalfe viaduct at 132 mm above the main level.


7, You'll need some black 5's as they were ubiquitous and the last steam loco to be used commercially by BR was a Black 5 45212 which shunted Preston yard on the 12/8/1968 the day after steam finished on BR, here 45393 passes Adolphus square station Towcaster.


8. you saw parcel vans of 40 footers, 50 footers, BR11's too

9. I never saw G2A's but you did see Thompson A1's
 
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