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From what I heard from my local model shop Hornby decoders and Gaugemaster do not mix. There is some sort of compatability issue.

A Oliver
 

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There is a reply on the Hornby forum which states that a Hornby decoder has been programmed using a Gaugemaster Prodigy unit with the loco on the track (direct mode programming?). The author of the reply states that it is his experience that you must not programme the Hornby decoder on the programme track setting of the Gaugemaster Prodigy as this appears to have damaged his Hornby decoders. He has not stated what damage has occured so this is a little unclear.

Happy modelling
Gary
 

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QUOTE (Gary @ 13 Dec 2006, 10:25) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>There is a reply on the Hornby forum which states that a Hornby decoder has been programmed using a Gaugemaster Prodigy unit with the loco on the track (direct mode programming?). The author of the reply states that it is his experience that you must not programme the Hornby decoder on the programme track setting of the Gaugemaster Prodigy as this appears to have damaged his Hornby decoders. He has not stated what damage has occured so this is a little unclear.

Happy modelling
Gary

That's strange - most DCC controllers output to a dedicated programming track is limited compared to the running tracks. I have never come accross this before with many makes of decoders.

Be interesting to know the outcome of this one.
 

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I was speaking to the owner of Rolling stock in North Shields yesterday. There has been a long running issue between some makes of decoders including Hornby and Lenz and the Prodigy. This is more noticeable in N Gauge locos and the smaller decoders. Gaugemaster have identified the problem and are I believe in the process of rectifying it.
Despite in the past defending it I will be dumping my Prodigy onto Ebay as soon as the new Bachmann controller is on sale. Basically I have had enough of trying to rectify problems that the manufacturer should have sorted before putting it on sale.
 

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QUOTE (thindude27 @ 8 Dec 2006, 15:01) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>From what I heard from my local model shop Hornby decoders and Gaugemaster do not mix. There is some sort of compatability issue.

A Oliver
I have problems with the Hornby decoder and SPROG.

The rumour is that the Hornby decoder does not support reading CVs. you can program them but cannot check what's in them. I have e-mailed Hornby for confirmation but had no response.

Andrew Crosland
 

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I have also had no answer back from Hornby over this issue. While I have had no concerns up to now over my Prodigy unit, this begs the question, is it Hornby who is not NMRA and DCC compatible or is it Gaugemaster? Very simple question realy, who can shine any light here?
 

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QUOTE (Sidney Sidings @ 17 Dec 2006, 14:22) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I have also had no answer back from Hornby over this issue. While I have had no concerns up to now over my Prodigy unit, this begs the question, is it Hornby who is not NMRA and DCC compatible or is it Gaugemaster? Very simple question realy, who can shine any light here?
This has been the subject of great debate and the debate can be read under various threads like Hornby Select, Bachman Dynamis etc. It is probably best not to re-ignite some of this debate as it got quite heated. The general conclusion was that Hornby DCC product had varying degrees of incompatibility issues. The Gaugemaster set up was bought off the shelf from a US company where it had been tried and tested so I wouldn't expect any problems there.
 

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QUOTE The general conclusion was that Hornby DCC product had varying degrees of incompatibility issues

That is not the conclusion reached at all. Great care needs to be taken in a public forum when making sweeping statements as we are leaving ourselves open to litigation. Now Hornby do not have a history of taking this course of action however let us not take advantage of this when discussing their products. And some companies do have a history as we have seen from the experience elsewhere!

Hornby have stated this:-

QUOTE Concerning your e-mail, I suspect, although I would need to check to be absolutely certain, that the reason why the TCS decoders do not appear to function correctly is the fact that they may require to be programmed using a different format than the Select uses. There are, in principal, 4 specific programming modes - Direct, Operation, Paged and Register. The Select uses the most recent format, which is Direct, but without receiving the technical spec of the decoders in question I cannot be more specific.

Incidentally, the Elite can accommodate all 4 programming modes.

Finally, both the Elite and Select are NMRA compatible.

I hope the above is of help.

Simon Kohler

There is a reply on the Hornby forum which states that a Hornby decoder has been programmed using a Gaugemaster Prodigy unit with the loco on the track (direct mode programming?). The author of the reply states that it is his experience that you must not programme the Hornby decoder on the programme track setting of the Gaugemaster Prodigy as this appears to have damaged his Hornby decoders. He has not stated what damage has occured so this is a little unclear.

When you look at American forums there seems to be issues with many DCC products when different manufacturers are mixed. This seems to be because manufacturers create a specification for a product that goes beyond the requirements of NMRA compatibility without appreciating how this can effect an earlier mode of operation. There is no mention of Hornby on American forums. This scenario is nothing new and to repeat Hornby state that Hornby Digital is NMRA compatible.

This is a question to raise with Gaugemaster not with Hornby.

Happy modelling
Gary
 

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Here we go, yet again or rather out comes Gary Hornby-Warley as soon as anyone dares to critisise his beloved Hornby.

There are three relevent words here ;

Conforms : "Complies with accepted standards".

Compatable : "Able to exist together".

Complient : "To act in accordance with rules".

Quotes taken from Collins English Dictionary.

The Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance (AKA MRC) conforms to NMRA standards according to their website www.gaugemaster.com (18/12/2006).

The Hornby DCC is designed to be NMRA compatable according to their website www.hornby.com (18/12/2006).

Neither of these products seems to have a NMRA Warrant - which means that they have been submitted to the NMRA for complience testing & found to conform, according to the NMRA website www.nmra.org (18/12/2006).
Many other manufactures (including Lenz who are of course the founders of DCC as we know it today) do have Warrants issued. The NMRA have been responsible for ensuring that DCC is pretty much "standard" worldwide & personally I'm glad that they have !

This is just one of the reasons that various manufacturers have submitted their products to the NMRA - it means that (provided the Warrant is issued) that A will work with B & C & D & so on. Bear in mind though that the NMRA requirements are not exhaustive.

So, this "fault" may really not lie with either manufacturer, neither claim to be complient with NMRA, just look at the actual wording used by them & draw you own conclusions !
 

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QUOTE Here we go, yet again or rather out comes Gary Hornby-Warley as soon as anyone dares to critisise his beloved Hornby.

So it is OK to critisise Hornby is it? Its fair game?

Lets all have a Hornby bashing session at Model Rail Forum.

Lets all be members of a destructive website.

Lets all be negative.

It totally pathetic.

It seems impossible for some members here to accept that Hornby have come up with a good value low cost budget system which by the nature of the base product will have a limited specification. Even though the Select and Hornby decoders have a limited specification it is absolutely right on the mark for most UK train set modellers looking to spend around £50 on a console and £8 for decoders. The Elite has yet to be made available for sale and this is the console designed for the serious digital user and even this is good value.

Get real folks. Hornby Digital (and Bachmann Digital come to that) is here to stay.

If there are any issues lets offer help and not have a compaign of unfounded Hornby bashing which doesn't do anything for anybody.

dbclass50 fails to make the point that there are fewer products with warrants than without (in fact not many at all including Bachmann and Digitrax products) and so his remarks are designed to bend the truth.

Now can we get back to the subject at hand and commit to no further unfounded Hornby bashing please which puts the whole forum at risk.

Happy modelling
Gary
 

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Gary - you are so predictable & still do not read a post correctly and as per usual rarely directly answer POV's and/or comments if it doesn't suit. My last post did not criticise any manufacturer - I just stated facts as I found them from the internet !

So it is OK to criticise Hornby is it? Its fair game?
It's fair "game" to criticise any manufacturer if justified.

Lets all have a Hornby bashing session at Model Rail Forum.
Your suggestion - what round are we in ?

Lets all be members of a destructive website.
Your suggestion again - why don't you start one then ?

Lets all be negative.
Your suggestion again !

It totally pathetic.
So why do you keep coming back again & again ? You could of course just leave it be & it will die a natural death.

It seems impossible for some members here to accept that Hornby have come up with a good value low cost budget system which by the nature of the base product will have a limited specification. Even though the Select and Hornby decoders have a limited specification it is absolutely right on the mark for most UK train set modellers looking to spend around £50 on a console and £8 for decoders. The Elite has yet to be made available for sale and this is the console designed for the serious digital user and even this is good value.
I have never ever criticised the Hornby "low cost budget systems" for what they are (in fact I had a play with the Select long before you had even seen one !) - so who are these "some members" who "cannot accept what Hornby have come up with" ? Certainly not me so either name them or shut up.
I am one of the first to admit that for the money it's a good value system & will be more than ample for much of Hornby's market. I look forward to the release of the Elite & sincerely hope that it is a "good un". In fact, during the next 12 months are so will be building another DCC HO exhibition layout (the existing one uses Fleischmann Twin Centres) & I have a completly open mind about which DCC controller to use - who knows - it may just be the Elite !

Get real folks. Hornby Digital (and Bachmann Digital come to that) is here to stay.
Who said they aint ? - again name names or shut up.

If there are any issues lets offer help and not have a campaign of unfounded Hornby bashing which doesn't do anything for anybody.
The only "campaign of unfounded Hornby bashing" is purely a figurement of your imagination. As regards help I have personally offered a new member here telephone help as he is a "newbie" to DCC & has an issue with a 73 & with three different decoders (H, B & L).

dbclass50 fails to make the point that there are fewer products with warrants than without (in fact not many at all including Bachmann and Digitrax products) and so his remarks are designed to bend the truth.
I could have made many, many other points but tried to stick with the relevant facts to this thread - maybe I should try to cloud future issues with reams of facts & figures then !

Now can we get back to the subject at hand and commit to no further unfounded Hornby bashing please which puts the whole forum at risk.
Some time ago, on another thread I suggested that we kept quiet until we had more information which we all managed to do. All that has happened here is the emergence of a few facts & some discussion on compatability issues.

Maybe we can have a Flame Pit & move some of the threads to it !
 

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QUOTE The general conclusion was that Hornby DCC product had varying degrees of incompatibility issues

QUOTE Here we go, yet again or rather out comes Gary Hornby-Warley as soon as anyone dares to critisise his beloved Hornby.

How is it possible to claim that these two comments made by others were not negative of Hornby and judgemental. I do not keep coming back again and again as claimed. Others do as witnessed above. The whole tone of the dbclass50 message is again judgmental and suggestive with the QUOTE draw your own conclusion comment at the end so how can a claim be made that the post was not being critical or judgemental? That is pure fantasy.

QUOTE Some time ago, on another thread I suggested that we kept quiet until we had more information which we all managed to do. All that has happened here is the emergence of a few facts & some discussion on compatability issues.

That was indeed the case until the first of the quoted sweeping comments offered above. Gaugemaster has had reported issues with several makes of decoder and yet the assumption is that Gaugemaster is right and Hornby are wrong by those who are Hornby bashers. There is no definitive answer and until there is it judgement has to be reserved.

Happy modelling
Gary
 

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GIGO

can I join in


QUOTE There is a reply on the Hornby forum which states that a Hornby decoder has been programmed using a Gaugemaster Prodigy unit with the loco on the track (direct mode programming?). The author of the reply states that it is his experience that you must not programme the Hornby decoder on the programme track setting of the Gaugemaster Prodigy as this appears to have damaged his Hornby decoders. He has not stated what damage has occured so this is a little unclear.

Was this when the moon was in the second quarter, the wind from the south west, and Gary was hoofin it on a Tandem ?. The facts are there are still computability issues and they need to be addressed and resolved. IMHO
your either NMRA compatible or not. As Simon Kohler stated they would be compatible that that must be corrected through software updates. The simple fact are that the product was rushed into the market without adequate testing, feedback and correction, by folks who know what a DCC system should do. I still view it as a great opportunity missed. Even Fisher Price knew better than that. BTW threats of litigation are rubbish and indefensible when the true facts are presented.
 

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Hornby digital may well have been bench tested against the products of Lenz who created the standard. This was the suggestion made by Hornby at the Warley Show. Lenz set the benchmark. If Hornby digital works with Lenz then that suggests a compatible product. Any suggestion on a public forum that Hornby have acted in an irresponsible manner should not be made lightly without any evidence.

That is a serious allegation to make MMaD so what evidence do you have?


Surely the logic is with the scrutiny that Hornby were aware their product would be under and the size of sales expected then they would be far more careful than others to make sure it is right.

The fact is Digitrax and a number of other American DCC companies have decided to adopt a different protocal from the Lenz Xpress Net and Railcom ID detection and this could very well be where the issue lies.

Happy modelling
Gary
 

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QUOTE The fact is Digitrax and a number of other American DCC companies have decided to adopt a different protocol from the Lenz Xpress Net and Railcom ID detection and this could very well be where the issue lies.
There is no standard or protocol for the bus system in DCC. Gary once again your deliberately trying to fog the issues here, or your not grasping the detail involved. This has nothing to do with control bus system employed.
However as you asked I'll relate a little DCC history.
Lenz and most of the other DCC producers did'nt want to buy into Loconet it's a Digitrax patent they would have to have paid a royality to Digitrax. They came up with Xpress net it works, its only capable of one way communication, it's needed several major software up dates. That's why Lenz based systems need a feed back bus. We also have can bus as a third standard. I can't claim to be an expert on any of them although I expect you are Gary. I don't have issues with other DCC systems, although there would be several I wouldn't touch with a barge pole and I'm not thinking of the Hornby system either.

Folks have problems programming Hornby decoders and reading back the values of CV's thats the currently the issue. Now on a £70 quid DCC system no matter who makes it, it's a feature I would be surprised to see.
But I'm surprised when folks with more suffocated kit can't read the value of CV's on Hornby's decoder. Perhaps you'd like to send me one Gary and I'll interrogate it to see what does with my system.

I am further amazed when decoders are stuffed out during programming. Now this might be a problem with the MRC kit, or the low spec on these decoders. Confidence of the punters in the product is what's at stake here. I can't imagine the folks at Hornby can be too chuffed with this. Personally I think the decoder's rating is too low on peak amps. A 9 quid decoder can quickly become and 18 quid one with a small surge in amps.
So you might as well build in some robustness even if it costs a couple of quid more. I don't buy anything on price, because the quality is always reflected in it's cost. Once again features are what make DCC systems, not cost discounts and pricing. You can judge for yourself which camp I place the Hornby system in.
 

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Just to give some info and perhaps clarify some points:

The piece of paper that comes with the Hornby decoder says that:
"The Hornby locomotive decoders may be used with all standard digital control equipment that conforms to the NMRA standards."
It does not say that the decoder itself conforms to NMRA standards.

It also says that the decoder supports the following CVs
CV1 (address)
CV3 (acceleration)
CV4 (deceleration)
CV29 (decoder config)
I really do hope that it supports some more...
 
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