[Makemineadouble]

GIGO

can I join in

QUOTE There is a reply on the Hornby forum which states that a Hornby decoder has been programmed using a Gaugemaster Prodigy unit with the loco on the track (direct mode programming?). The author of the reply states that it is his experience that you must not programme the Hornby decoder on the programme track setting of the Gaugemaster Prodigy as this appears to have damaged his Hornby decoders. He has not stated what damage has occured so this is a little unclear.

Was this when the moon was in the second quarter, the wind from the south west, and Gary was hoofin it on a Tandem ?. The facts are there are still computability issues and they need to be addressed and resolved. IMHO
your either NMRA compatible or not. As Simon Kohler stated they would be compatible that that must be corrected through software updates. The simple fact are that the product was rushed into the market without adequate testing, feedback and correction, by folks who know what a DCC system should do. I still view it as a great opportunity missed. Even Fisher Price knew better than that. BTW threats of litigation are rubbish and indefensible when the true facts are presented.

 

[Makemineadouble]

QUOTE The fact is Digitrax and a number of other American DCC companies have decided to adopt a different protocol from the Lenz Xpress Net and Railcom ID detection and this could very well be where the issue lies.
There is no standard or protocol for the bus system in DCC. Gary once again your deliberately trying to fog the issues here, or your not grasping the detail involved. This has nothing to do with control bus system employed.
However as you asked I'll relate a little DCC history.
Lenz and most of the other DCC producers did'nt want to buy into Loconet it's a Digitrax patent they would have to have paid a royality to Digitrax. They came up with Xpress net it works, its only capable of one way communication, it's needed several major software up dates. That's why Lenz based systems need a feed back bus. We also have can bus as a third standard. I can't claim to be an expert on any of them although I expect you are Gary. I don't have issues with other DCC systems, although there would be several I wouldn't touch with a barge pole and I'm not thinking of the Hornby system either.

Folks have problems programming Hornby decoders and reading back the values of CV's thats the currently the issue. Now on a £70 quid DCC system no matter who makes it, it's a feature I would be surprised to see.
But I'm surprised when folks with more suffocated kit can't read the value of CV's on Hornby's decoder. Perhaps you'd like to send me one Gary and I'll interrogate it to see what does with my system.

I am further amazed when decoders are stuffed out during programming. Now this might be a problem with the MRC kit, or the low spec on these decoders. Confidence of the punters in the product is what's at stake here. I can't imagine the folks at Hornby can be too chuffed with this. Personally I think the decoder's rating is too low on peak amps. A 9 quid decoder can quickly become and 18 quid one with a small surge in amps.
So you might as well build in some robustness even if it costs a couple of quid more. I don't buy anything on price, because the quality is always reflected in it's cost. Once again features are what make DCC systems, not cost discounts and pricing. You can judge for yourself which camp I place the Hornby system in.

 

[Makemineadouble]

This was posted this morning on Pat Hammond's site:

QUOTE DCC Ready is set to be a thing of the past where Hornby are concerned. After the King Arthur, all brand new locomotives developed by Hornby will be 'DCC Fitted'. In addition, two recently introduced classes will also be 'DCC Fitted' next year and I suspect that the rest of the range will gradually be brought into line. These locos will perform perfectly well in DC and the additional cost is likely to be £10 per loco. This may well fall in time - Ed

With decoders of such a low standard the majority of users are likely to have to discard them, which defeats the objective in the first place.

 

[Makemineadouble]

QUOTE Hornby decoders surely are designed to operate the functions required by Hornby locos when using Hornby Digital which is only normally lights within D&E stock when you think about it. Is there any logical or technical reason why Hornby should add to the decoder specification and cost by including additional functions that are not included or required as part of Hornby off the shelf product? For those digital users who want more then there will be the option of replacing the decoder as suggested.

Happy modelling
Gary

PS to those who it may concern - what I refrain from doing is making potentially libellous statements and others should consider doing the same. It is pointless in future replying to messages that are deemed potentially libellous however I will continue to highlight comments made that are protentially libellous as I personally do not wish to be associated with them and will state this. For every Hornby customer digital is a very steep learning curve and we should accept this and nurture the interest. There are a few among us who seem bent on doing the opposite.

Thank you for that Gary lets cover a few of those points:

(1) This is a public forum not a debating society. What threat of litigation ? the objective of this forum is simple - to provide a platform for debate on modelling matters. Litigation doesn't come into it. You cannot discuss modelling matters without bringing coverage of the manufacturers products into the spot light. If for example a model is not historically accurate, do you expect the members of this forum to remain quiet and non critical.

I and most others genuinely would like to see the Hornby Elite be a success, I do hope it is. Perhaps some of the adverse criticism that centres around compatibility issues will have been taken on-board, and used to ensure the product is NMRA compliant, and robustly tested on pilot users. Of course you know what to expect should the product not live up to expectations. It doesn't bother me personally that Hornby's products may feature a throw away decoder. Items that add to the cost without improving the product are short lived and are doomed to be a failure.

Hornby digital is a steep learning curve why is that ? is more difficult than other digital systems it shouldn't be, it was designed to be simple wasn't it ?. Even with a Digitrax top end system with some formidable documentation you should be up and running in 45 minutes including the wiring.

So your suggesting that serious users should have to throw away the Hornby decoder and install the one of their choice.

watch it Gary, Mr Kohler won't be pleased with this radical approach, of yours he might even reconfigure your Brownie points. Now what were they ?

I should point out, that in order to get better performance you should be using a decoder that has more functions than those that the Hornby decoder offers. Better Peak amps, and larger range of CV's. You'll find in time the very cheap low spec decoders will fall away because the public simply won't want them.