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There is a reply on the Hornby forum which states that a Hornby decoder has been programmed using a Gaugemaster Prodigy unit with the loco on the track (direct mode programming?). The author of the reply states that it is his experience that you must not programme the Hornby decoder on the programme track setting of the Gaugemaster Prodigy as this appears to have damaged his Hornby decoders. He has not stated what damage has occured so this is a little unclear.

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Gary
 

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QUOTE The general conclusion was that Hornby DCC product had varying degrees of incompatibility issues

That is not the conclusion reached at all. Great care needs to be taken in a public forum when making sweeping statements as we are leaving ourselves open to litigation. Now Hornby do not have a history of taking this course of action however let us not take advantage of this when discussing their products. And some companies do have a history as we have seen from the experience elsewhere!

Hornby have stated this:-

QUOTE Concerning your e-mail, I suspect, although I would need to check to be absolutely certain, that the reason why the TCS decoders do not appear to function correctly is the fact that they may require to be programmed using a different format than the Select uses. There are, in principal, 4 specific programming modes - Direct, Operation, Paged and Register. The Select uses the most recent format, which is Direct, but without receiving the technical spec of the decoders in question I cannot be more specific.

Incidentally, the Elite can accommodate all 4 programming modes.

Finally, both the Elite and Select are NMRA compatible.

I hope the above is of help.

Simon Kohler

There is a reply on the Hornby forum which states that a Hornby decoder has been programmed using a Gaugemaster Prodigy unit with the loco on the track (direct mode programming?). The author of the reply states that it is his experience that you must not programme the Hornby decoder on the programme track setting of the Gaugemaster Prodigy as this appears to have damaged his Hornby decoders. He has not stated what damage has occured so this is a little unclear.

When you look at American forums there seems to be issues with many DCC products when different manufacturers are mixed. This seems to be because manufacturers create a specification for a product that goes beyond the requirements of NMRA compatibility without appreciating how this can effect an earlier mode of operation. There is no mention of Hornby on American forums. This scenario is nothing new and to repeat Hornby state that Hornby Digital is NMRA compatible.

This is a question to raise with Gaugemaster not with Hornby.

Happy modelling
Gary
 

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QUOTE Here we go, yet again or rather out comes Gary Hornby-Warley as soon as anyone dares to critisise his beloved Hornby.

So it is OK to critisise Hornby is it? Its fair game?

Lets all have a Hornby bashing session at Model Rail Forum.

Lets all be members of a destructive website.

Lets all be negative.

It totally pathetic.

It seems impossible for some members here to accept that Hornby have come up with a good value low cost budget system which by the nature of the base product will have a limited specification. Even though the Select and Hornby decoders have a limited specification it is absolutely right on the mark for most UK train set modellers looking to spend around £50 on a console and £8 for decoders. The Elite has yet to be made available for sale and this is the console designed for the serious digital user and even this is good value.

Get real folks. Hornby Digital (and Bachmann Digital come to that) is here to stay.

If there are any issues lets offer help and not have a compaign of unfounded Hornby bashing which doesn't do anything for anybody.

dbclass50 fails to make the point that there are fewer products with warrants than without (in fact not many at all including Bachmann and Digitrax products) and so his remarks are designed to bend the truth.

Now can we get back to the subject at hand and commit to no further unfounded Hornby bashing please which puts the whole forum at risk.

Happy modelling
Gary
 

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QUOTE The general conclusion was that Hornby DCC product had varying degrees of incompatibility issues

QUOTE Here we go, yet again or rather out comes Gary Hornby-Warley as soon as anyone dares to critisise his beloved Hornby.

How is it possible to claim that these two comments made by others were not negative of Hornby and judgemental. I do not keep coming back again and again as claimed. Others do as witnessed above. The whole tone of the dbclass50 message is again judgmental and suggestive with the QUOTE draw your own conclusion comment at the end so how can a claim be made that the post was not being critical or judgemental? That is pure fantasy.

QUOTE Some time ago, on another thread I suggested that we kept quiet until we had more information which we all managed to do. All that has happened here is the emergence of a few facts & some discussion on compatability issues.

That was indeed the case until the first of the quoted sweeping comments offered above. Gaugemaster has had reported issues with several makes of decoder and yet the assumption is that Gaugemaster is right and Hornby are wrong by those who are Hornby bashers. There is no definitive answer and until there is it judgement has to be reserved.

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Gary
 

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Hornby digital may well have been bench tested against the products of Lenz who created the standard. This was the suggestion made by Hornby at the Warley Show. Lenz set the benchmark. If Hornby digital works with Lenz then that suggests a compatible product. Any suggestion on a public forum that Hornby have acted in an irresponsible manner should not be made lightly without any evidence.

That is a serious allegation to make MMaD so what evidence do you have?


Surely the logic is with the scrutiny that Hornby were aware their product would be under and the size of sales expected then they would be far more careful than others to make sure it is right.

The fact is Digitrax and a number of other American DCC companies have decided to adopt a different protocal from the Lenz Xpress Net and Railcom ID detection and this could very well be where the issue lies.

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Gary
 

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Hornby decoders surely are designed to operate the functions required by Hornby locos when using Hornby Digital which is only normally lights within D&E stock when you think about it. Is there any logical or technical reason why Hornby should add to the decoder specification and cost by including additional functions that are not included or required as part of Hornby off the shelf product?


For those digital users who want more then there will be the option of replacing the decoder as suggested.

Happy modelling
Gary

PS to those who it may concern - what I refrain from doing is making potentially libellous statements and others should consider doing the same. It is pointless in future replying to messages that are deemed potentially libellous however I will continue to highlight comments made that are protentially libellous as I personally do not wish to be associated with them and will state this. For every Hornby customer digital is a very steep learning curve and we should accept this and nurture the interest. There are a few among us who seem bent on doing the opposite.
 

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QUOTE Hornby digital is a steep learning curve why is that ? is more difficult than other digital systems it shouldn't be, it was designed to be simple wasn't it ?

There is plenty of evidence on Hornby's own forum that Hornby Digital is a steep learning curve for Hornby customers. Bachmann EZ-Command was a steep learning curve for me first time around and its only when I watched the Bachmann rep at a show that I picked up on the concept of functions! The concept of operating with digital control in general combined with the high level of sales being enjoyed by Hornby digital has combined to produce the highest level ever of digital first time users in the UK.

My own personal view is that the Hornby Select instruction manual needs to be clearer and Hornby were surprised when I expressed this sentiment to them at the Warley Show. When designing a manual where massive sales are expected to first time users it is imperitve that you create a document that is clear in the extreme to avoid confusion which can lead you to believe your new machine is not funtioning correctly. The Hornby document should have clearer sequential instructions with a much larger number of photographic pictures rather than a limited number of diagramatic pictures and possibly introducing the concepts in a different sequence.

There seems to be an industry wide issue here with too much reliance on the internet and not enough reliance on providing a good, clear, simple manual designed to educate rather than make assumptions that the user already understands the concepts.

Notwithstanding this there will inevitably be new Hornby digital users signing up to Model Rail Forum. Are we going to take this onboard going forward when helping these new digital users out?


My concern is that there will be members who will persist in making comparisons with alternative equipment when these circumstances arrise rather than helping to educate those with their systems already purchased.

Happy modelling
Gary
 
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