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QUOTE (Sidney Sidings @ 17 Dec 2006, 14:22) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I have also had no answer back from Hornby over this issue. While I have had no concerns up to now over my Prodigy unit, this begs the question, is it Hornby who is not NMRA and DCC compatible or is it Gaugemaster? Very simple question realy, who can shine any light here?
This has been the subject of great debate and the debate can be read under various threads like Hornby Select, Bachman Dynamis etc. It is probably best not to re-ignite some of this debate as it got quite heated. The general conclusion was that Hornby DCC product had varying degrees of incompatibility issues. The Gaugemaster set up was bought off the shelf from a US company where it had been tried and tested so I wouldn't expect any problems there.
 

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That is not the conclusion reached at all.
Yes it was Gary, you may have chosen not to accept it but that would be the commonly perceived perception.

So it is OK to critisise Hornby is it? Its fair game?
If they produce crap they deserve a slagging. They should not be immune just because a couple of individuals think they can do no wrong.

Now can we get back to the subject at hand and commit to no further unfounded Hornby bashing please which puts the whole forum at risk.
In what way is the forum at risk? Is this amateur dramatics or what?

It totally pathetic.
Some would say the same of the sycophantic approach to Hornby.

It seems impossible for some members here to accept that Hornby have come up with a good value low cost budget system which by the nature of the base product will have a limited specification
They have, but there are buyer beware issues with the product. Every day new issues are arising on this and other forums.

I am one of the first to admit that for the money it's a good value system & will be more than ample for much of Hornby's market.
I'd agree with that too. The issue is that most people on this forum are not beginner train set guys and that's what the Hornby products are aimed at.

Get real folks. Hornby Digital (and Bachmann Digital come to that) is here to stay
Who said that? I didn't

Maybe we can have a Flame Pit & move some of the threads to it !
Yep, that would be the go.

Here we go, yet again or rather out comes Gary Hornby-Warley as soon as anyone dares to critisise his beloved Hornby.
That is fair comment

That was indeed the case until the first of the quoted sweeping comments offered above. Gaugemaster has had reported issues with several makes of decoder and yet the assumption is that Gaugemaster is right and Hornby are wrong by those who are Hornby bashers. There is no definitive answer and until there is it judgement has to be reserved
This one is obviously aimed at me so as previously stated various reports are coming through about the shortcomings of the Hornby system these have been mentioned numerous times before and we all know what they are, even your trusty side kick seems to be crumbling and has pointed some of them out in his post,

I would certainly be nervous of putting a Hornby decoder in something big with lights that had to pull heavy loads (eg a 60), and it would clearly be toast in anything from Heljan.
It is starting to look as if Hornby have provided restricted functionality in order to hit the very low price points they have targeted. I've a nasty suspicion 4 CVs may indeed be all the decoder supports , and there does seem to be a suggestion it doesn't support read back of a value (as I think the Select doesn't?)
I have heard very little complaints about Gaugemasters system failing so what else could one reasonably conclude. As previously said Hornby made their system cheap by leaving things out. There has been enough information coming through about what the Hornby system does not do to justify initial suspicions. What else do you expect for the low price.
 

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QUOTE (Gary @ 18 Dec 2006, 10:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Is the last post acceptable to the owners and moderators of this forum?


Happy modelling
Gary
Don't be ridiculous.
All my post does is answer your questions and allegations and offers support to those making statements which I agree with. If you don't want this sort of reaction why do you persist with defending the indefensible and continuing the Hornby are the greatest promotional theme? There is nothing in my last post which is unacceptable when compared with recent threads which is more than I can say for some of the posts and threads you have made.

You restarted this Hornby DCC debate when every one else had quitened down, so don't do what you usually do and act all innocent after cranking everyone else up. You created this current heated debate and generated this response. Why the owners and moderators of this forum would wish to single me out when the single greatest source of friction on this forum suggests so would be laughable. It's you they should be looking at.
 

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QUOTE I was initially considering purchasing a Hornby start system in order to "test the water", but have now decided, partly as a result of this diatribe against other forum members, to go for the Roco system instead.

You won't regret it John. I started off with a Roco digital system, the Lokmaus 2, and found it easy to use and reliable. The new Multimaus is a very good system and you'll find it easy to use and the instructions fairly easy to get going with. Good choice.

QUOTE If Hornby do include a decoder as standard in future will it be the same low quality as we have seen so far?This is a worry. Could give Bachmann the biggest sales boost they've ever had.

QUOTE I would be very disappointed if Hornby dropped the NEM 652 socket and started fitting their locomotives with a decoder that did not have similar features and performance to Lenz Gold, Zimo MX63R or ESU LokPilot 3.
Sorry David but it's not going to happen. At least Bachmann seem to be on the right track with their digital program.

I notice that someone has been adding libel law to their portfolio of expertise. They may wish to consider this.
QUOTE In the UK, if someone thinks that what you wrote about them is either defamatory or damaging, the onus will be entirely on you to prove that your comments are true in court. In other words, if you make the claim, you've got to prove it!

On the internet the rules are exactly the same. There are no special internet defences. The only advantage is that web sites tend to have a smaller number of users, (so less people see it hence it's less defamatory so it's rarely worth the bother of going to court) and allegations can be removed promptly on protest from a defamed party.

There is also a defence of 'fair comment' which is somewhat vague but is basically there to stop someone being sued for saying they don't like Marks & Spencer or McDonalds or Piers Morgan.

You are allowed to say that - even if you were a famous star or a very persuasive writer and it could damage them financially. That's the law.

Nor is being abusive libelous.

So I can say "Keith Moon was a smackhead lower of the highest order" and it's no problem. In fact I could say "every human who ever existed was a smack dealing, gun running, uncle f
r."

This is completely okay. That's UK libel!
I am confident I have enough information to substantiate beyond reasonable doubt what I say to be correct. I think that most other people on this forum stick to facts that are substantiated so there is no fear of libel for them either. You may be interested to know that the above information came from a libel lawyer.
 

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QUOTE just cannot believe that Hornby has been so arrogant, or are they just being stupid over all this. I'm sorry if I have offended anyone on the forum about this statement but I feel some things have to be said. I think they need to get their house in order pretty quick, and by having someone keep on making up excuses and now empty threats over litigation, I fear is not going to endear too many people on this forum to Hornby's system.

This new tactic of frequently referring to litigation is interesting. I wonder who put him up to it? Captn Bob aka the bouncing Czech used to get away with a lot using that form of intimidation.
 

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QUOTE My concern is that there will be members who will persist in making comparisons with alternative equipment when these circumstances arrise rather than helping to educate those with their systems already purchased.

I think it is only natural that comparisons will be made between different systems. The only way they can be separated out is if we have a different DCC section for beginners and for those who know a bit more. However I would say that regardless of their opinion of the budget DCC offerings, help is always offered and given by those on the forum with greater DCC knowledge.

QUOTE I think Hornby have got it about right with the cost of the sets against the functionality. How many of us would be shouting down Hornby for releasing a £300 set with all knobs and whistles, instead of £150.

Fair comment. Ultimately some corner of the market will feel that their requirements have not been addressed.

QUOTE There seems to be an industry wide issue here with too much reliance on the internet and not enough reliance on providing a good, clear, simple manual designed to educate rather than make assumptions that the user already understands the concepts.

Unbelievably enough I would agree with this too. Any DCC product or unit must have stand alone instructions with no reliance on websites for support. Some manuals are poorly written. However some manuals really go overboard. Have you seen the thickness of the manual that comes with the Lenz Gold decoder?
 
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