gaugemaster prodigy and hornby decoders

Perhaps it would be most constructive at this point to find out who has managed to program a Hornby decoder, and with what system(s), rather than argue further about second hand reports about what it does or does not do with Gaugemaster/MRC kit.

I've not seen any comments about whether it can or can't be programmed with Lenz derived systems (or for that matter with ZTC, Digitrax, or - potentially more immediate concern to me - NCE, especially the PowerCab)

Doug : look forward to your tests. As far as I'm aware , there have been no reports about the Hornby Accessory Decoder, and as the number of accessory decoders on the market is pretty limited it could potentially be a useful new product

What system do you have?

It is starting to look as if Hornby have provided restricted functionality in order to hit the very low price points they have targeted. I've a nasty suspicion 4 CVs may indeed be all the decoder supports , and there does seem to be a suggestion it doesn't support read back of a value (as I think the Select doesn't?)

I would certainly be nervous of putting a Hornby decoder in something big with lights that had to pull heavy loads (eg a 60), and it would clearly be toast in anything from Heljan. However the current limitation might well be perfectly acceptable in a DMU without lights like the 156 or forthcoming 101, (both applications that could be of interest to me) or in the M7.

It would certainly be perfectly acceptable in N , and given its small size and the high cost of conventional micro decoders, could find a role there as well, so long as it can be programmed.

In short Hornby's DCC as we know it, but cut to the bare bones.

That is not the conclusion reached at all.

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Yes it was Gary, you may have chosen not to accept it but that would be the commonly perceived perception.

So it is OK to critisise Hornby is it? Its fair game?

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If they produce crap they deserve a slagging. They should not be immune just because a couple of individuals think they can do no wrong.

Now can we get back to the subject at hand and commit to no further unfounded Hornby bashing please which puts the whole forum at risk.

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In what way is the forum at risk? Is this amateur dramatics or what?

It totally pathetic.

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Some would say the same of the sycophantic approach to Hornby.

It seems impossible for some members here to accept that Hornby have come up with a good value low cost budget system which by the nature of the base product will have a limited specification

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They have, but there are buyer beware issues with the product. Every day new issues are arising on this and other forums.

I am one of the first to admit that for the money it's a good value system & will be more than ample for much of Hornby's market.

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I'd agree with that too. The issue is that most people on this forum are not beginner train set guys and that's what the Hornby products are aimed at.

Get real folks. Hornby Digital (and Bachmann Digital come to that) is here to stay

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Who said that? I didn't

Maybe we can have a Flame Pit & move some of the threads to it !

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Yep, that would be the go.

Here we go, yet again or rather out comes Gary Hornby-Warley as soon as anyone dares to critisise his beloved Hornby.

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That is fair comment

That was indeed the case until the first of the quoted sweeping comments offered above. Gaugemaster has had reported issues with several makes of decoder and yet the assumption is that Gaugemaster is right and Hornby are wrong by those who are Hornby bashers. There is no definitive answer and until there is it judgement has to be reserved

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This one is obviously aimed at me so as previously stated various reports are coming through about the shortcomings of the Hornby system these have been mentioned numerous times before and we all know what they are, even your trusty side kick seems to be crumbling and has pointed some of them out in his post,

I would certainly be nervous of putting a Hornby decoder in something big with lights that had to pull heavy loads (eg a 60), and it would clearly be toast in anything from Heljan.

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It is starting to look as if Hornby have provided restricted functionality in order to hit the very low price points they have targeted. I've a nasty suspicion 4 CVs may indeed be all the decoder supports , and there does seem to be a suggestion it doesn't support read back of a value (as I think the Select doesn't?)

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I have heard very little complaints about Gaugemasters system failing so what else could one reasonably conclude. As previously said Hornby made their system cheap by leaving things out. There has been enough information coming through about what the Hornby system does not do to justify initial suspicions. What else do you expect for the low price.

Is the last post acceptable to the owners and moderators of this forum?

Happy modelling
Gary

I have to admit I do slightly enjoy this back and forth slagging. I especially enjoy it because I only use Lenz Gold or ESU decoders and wouldn't use the H***by decoders even if they were offered to me free of charge.

QUOTE (Gary @ 18 Dec 2006, 10:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Is the last post acceptable to the owners and moderators of this forum?

Happy modelling
Gary
Don't be ridiculous. All my post does is answer your questions and allegations and offers support to those making statements which I agree with. If you don't want this sort of reaction why do you persist with defending the indefensible and continuing the Hornby are the greatest promotional theme? There is nothing in my last post which is unacceptable when compared with recent threads which is more than I can say for some of the posts and threads you have made.

You restarted this Hornby DCC debate when every one else had quitened down, so don't do what you usually do and act all innocent after cranking everyone else up. You created this current heated debate and generated this response. Why the owners and moderators of this forum would wish to single me out when the single greatest source of friction on this forum suggests so would be laughable. It's you they should be looking at.

I don't know about the owner but i don't have a problem with it.

Well I have managed to find out some information regarding the Prodigy /Hornby issue. It appears that the Prodigy cannot be sold with an NMRA standard on it as it currently exceeds it. The standard currently only recognises systems that can handle up to 10 functions where as the Prodigy will handle 20. The unit also, when shipped from the US, has the DCC logo on it however gaugemaster aparently cover this when it is badge engineered. The Hornby digital items DO NOT have any reference to either standard, so its obvious to me now who dose NOT conform.

I'm not a Hornby or a Gary basher but why after so long of there being standards set, and by in large most conforming to those standards, Hornby would want to bring out a system that falls outside of it?

You can throw the cheap price/mass market agender thing around all you like Gary, but no one has crititised any other entry level Digital control system like they have yours, sorry I mean Hornby's.

Lets not get too upset about all this, as consumers we do have a choice, after all Personal Computers are meant to compatible, but if one spent less than £10 on a 'cheap' item of hardward/software and it did not work, I would imagine most of us would just throw it away and not buy from that source again. We get what we pay for in this life, but there is a difference in 'Value For Money' and 'Cheap' and my 'cheap' Hornby chip has long been thrown away.

This was posted this morning on Pat Hammond's site:

QUOTE DCC Ready is set to be a thing of the past where Hornby are concerned. After the King Arthur, all brand new locomotives developed by Hornby will be 'DCC Fitted'. In addition, two recently introduced classes will also be 'DCC Fitted' next year and I suspect that the rest of the range will gradually be brought into line. These locos will perform perfectly well in DC and the additional cost is likely to be £10 per loco. This may well fall in time - Ed

With decoders of such a low standard the majority of users are likely to have to discard them, which defeats the objective in the first place.

Hornby decoders surely are designed to operate the functions required by Hornby locos when using Hornby Digital which is only normally lights within D&E stock when you think about it. Is there any logical or technical reason why Hornby should add to the decoder specification and cost by including additional functions that are not included or required as part of Hornby off the shelf product?

For those digital users who want more then there will be the option of replacing the decoder as suggested.

Happy modelling
Gary

PS to those who it may concern - what I refrain from doing is making potentially libellous statements and others should consider doing the same. It is pointless in future replying to messages that are deemed potentially libellous however I will continue to highlight comments made that are protentially libellous as I personally do not wish to be associated with them and will state this. For every Hornby customer digital is a very steep learning curve and we should accept this and nurture the interest. There are a few among us who seem bent on doing the opposite.

QUOTE (Gary @ 17 Dec 2006, 23:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Is the last post acceptable to the owners and moderators of this forum?

As one who rarely comments on the DCC section of this forum, I felt suitably incensed by comments made. As a result of that I feel I have to make some kind of response.

I am currently seriously considering switching to DCC as a control method an as a result have been using this area as a source of information to attempt to make a decision on which of the entry level systems is most suitable for my needs.

Over the past few weeks I have found the comments and advice from the likes of neil_s_wood, dbclass50, and others to be informative and although on occasion technicaly way beyond me, a useful source of information.

The attitude of Gary to the comments and criticisms of his beloved Hornby, are to be frank, absurd in the extreme. I was initially considering purchasing a Hornby start system in order to "test the water", but have now decided, partly as a result of this diatribe against other forum members, to go for the Roco system instead.

I have every respect for Hornby and their products, but if there are problems then they should be criticised and aired in the public domain, if they are not then no manufacturers, be they big or small, will ever be able to produce items that we the public want to buy.

So finally I have to say: Gary, I personally found Neils cooments perfectly acceptable.

Regards

John

Hi guys,

Lets try and keep personal attacks, jibes and referrals down please. We are obliged as a public forum to allow all members to comment and add their opinion.

Lets also not try and force our personal opinions on others. Present the facts of an argument or give a clear opinion on an argument. You do not have to agree with a concept or disagree and you may say what you like.

When facts are presented and arguments made and opinions left on those facts and arguments, then we will get a better picture of the topic in question.

When we attack people and criticise others, we are only muddying the waters and preventing the core arguments from being shown.

I don't want to shut down another DCC thread as I have a keen interest in the subject matter too, so from now on, all parties, please respect the rules of play.

- The management

QUOTE I was initially considering purchasing a Hornby start system in order to "test the water", but have now decided, partly as a result of this diatribe against other forum members, to go for the Roco system instead.

You won't regret it John. I started off with a Roco digital system, the Lokmaus 2, and found it easy to use and reliable. The new Multimaus is a very good system and you'll find it easy to use and the instructions fairly easy to get going with. Good choice.

QUOTE If Hornby do include a decoder as standard in future will it be the same low quality as we have seen so far?This is a worry. Could give Bachmann the biggest sales boost they've ever had.

QUOTE I would be very disappointed if Hornby dropped the NEM 652 socket and started fitting their locomotives with a decoder that did not have similar features and performance to Lenz Gold, Zimo MX63R or ESU LokPilot 3.
Sorry David but it's not going to happen. At least Bachmann seem to be on the right track with their digital program.

I notice that someone has been adding libel law to their portfolio of expertise. They may wish to consider this.
QUOTE In the UK, if someone thinks that what you wrote about them is either defamatory or damaging, the onus will be entirely on you to prove that your comments are true in court. In other words, if you make the claim, you've got to prove it!

On the internet the rules are exactly the same. There are no special internet defences. The only advantage is that web sites tend to have a smaller number of users, (so less people see it hence it's less defamatory so it's rarely worth the bother of going to court) and allegations can be removed promptly on protest from a defamed party.

There is also a defence of 'fair comment' which is somewhat vague but is basically there to stop someone being sued for saying they don't like Marks & Spencer or McDonalds or Piers Morgan.

You are allowed to say that - even if you were a famous star or a very persuasive writer and it could damage them financially. That's the law.

Nor is being abusive libelous.

So I can say "Keith Moon was a smackhead lower of the highest order" and it's no problem. In fact I could say "every human who ever existed was a smack dealing, gun running, uncle f r."

This is completely okay. That's UK libel!
I am confident I have enough information to substantiate beyond reasonable doubt what I say to be correct. I think that most other people on this forum stick to facts that are substantiated so there is no fear of libel for them either. You may be interested to know that the above information came from a libel lawyer.

>Sorry David but it's not going to happen
Maybe it's the excuse I need to bring forward my locomotive program and stock pile socketed locos whilst they're still available.

David

There is a little Hornby decoder review over here

QUOTE Hornby decoders surely are designed to operate the functions required by Hornby locos when using Hornby Digital which is only normally lights within D&E stock when you think about it. Is there any logical or technical reason why Hornby should add to the decoder specification and cost by including additional functions that are not included or required as part of Hornby off the shelf product? For those digital users who want more then there will be the option of replacing the decoder as suggested.

Happy modelling
Gary

PS to those who it may concern - what I refrain from doing is making potentially libellous statements and others should consider doing the same. It is pointless in future replying to messages that are deemed potentially libellous however I will continue to highlight comments made that are protentially libellous as I personally do not wish to be associated with them and will state this. For every Hornby customer digital is a very steep learning curve and we should accept this and nurture the interest. There are a few among us who seem bent on doing the opposite.

Thank you for that Gary lets cover a few of those points:

(1) This is a public forum not a debating society. What threat of litigation ? the objective of this forum is simple - to provide a platform for debate on modelling matters. Litigation doesn't come into it. You cannot discuss modelling matters without bringing coverage of the manufacturers products into the spot light. If for example a model is not historically accurate, do you expect the members of this forum to remain quiet and non critical.

I and most others genuinely would like to see the Hornby Elite be a success, I do hope it is. Perhaps some of the adverse criticism that centres around compatibility issues will have been taken on-board, and used to ensure the product is NMRA compliant, and robustly tested on pilot users. Of course you know what to expect should the product not live up to expectations. It doesn't bother me personally that Hornby's products may feature a throw away decoder. Items that add to the cost without improving the product are short lived and are doomed to be a failure.

Hornby digital is a steep learning curve why is that ? is more difficult than other digital systems it shouldn't be, it was designed to be simple wasn't it ?. Even with a Digitrax top end system with some formidable documentation you should be up and running in 45 minutes including the wiring.

So your suggesting that serious users should have to throw away the Hornby decoder and install the one of their choice. watch it Gary, Mr Kohler won't be pleased with this radical approach, of yours he might even reconfigure your Brownie points. Now what were they ? I should point out, that in order to get better performance you should be using a decoder that has more functions than those that the Hornby decoder offers. Better Peak amps, and larger range of CV's. You'll find in time the very cheap low spec decoders will fall away because the public simply won't want them.

QUOTE (dwb @ 19 Dec 2006, 08:59) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>>Sorry David but it's not going to happen
Maybe it's the excuse I need to bring forward my locomotive program and stock pile socketed locos whilst they're still available.

David
That thought had occurred to me too. B)