[Gary]

Gaugemaster claim that the Prodigy conforms to a standard and yet the console and its MRC cousin is not on the NMRA list of products with conformance warrants.

What does conformance mean in these circumstances?

Gaugemaster do offer decoders for their product.

Do these decoders function with the Hornby Select console?

Ask ourselves why Gaugemaster Prodigy Console owners and other higher end console owners are purchasing and using Hornby decoders. Hornby must be offering something that DCC users want.

Hornby decoders are sold out at a large number of online stockists.

Its a bit silly to say that Hornby Digital has not been an instant hit with customers.

The only negative remarks here seem to eminate from folk who by their own admission are never going to use Hornby digital products and are basing their judgement on heresay and the comment of others who may have an agenda.

At least the Prodigy owner who raised the issue with his Hornby decoder and his Prodigy console had the balls to go out and buy the product! He has every right to comment and provide feedback.

How can your opinion count if you have not owned, used or tried the product?

There are Hornby Select owners who say that the console works remarkebly well and these comments are conveniently and routinely ignored. It could be that some of the reports are linked to owner inexperience with digital and DCC.

Model Rail Forum have reviewed Hornby decoders and they perform well for a budget decoder.

Click HERE to read the review.

If a Model Rail Forum member comes here to seek help lets use our experience to offer help and stick to that agenda rather than go off on any other.

Happy modelling
Gary

PS Warley MRC are having an open day on 11th February. A large O gauge Class 47 Loco with sound was being tested last night with the Digitrax DCC set up used on the O gauge layout. It sounded absolutely fanatastic as it cruised around the large layout. Those who visit on 11th February are in for a treat!

 

[Gordon H]

QUOTE (Gary @ 24 Jan 2007, 08:28) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Gaugemaster claim that the Prodigy conforms to a standard and yet the console and its MRC cousin is not on the NMRA list of products with conformance warrants.

What does conformance mean in these circumstances?
Conformance in DCC terms means that the NMRA has conducted tests on that product to a particular specification, and it passes them all.

QUOTE Ask ourselves why Gaugemaster Prodigy Console owners and other higher end console owners are purchasing and using Hornby decoders. Hornby must be offering something that DCC users want.
I often buy one-off decoders to evaluate different types - doesn't mean to say I will ever buy any more of the same. I suspect many others apply this principle. I would have bought one of the first Hornby types, but since learning of its severe omissions and limitations I can't see any point. The Sapphire may be a different story...

QUOTE Hornby decoders are sold out at a large number of online stockists.
Sadly, I suspect largely to a general public ignorant of such matters. Currently they are living on their brand name reputation.

QUOTE The only negative remarks here seem to eminate from folk who by their own admission are never going to use Hornby digital products and are basing their judgement on heresay and the comment of others who may have an agenda.
I would be quite happy to use their decoders if I thought they worked to the specifications and represented good value for money. Where Hornby failed from the start is that they introduced a limited capability system into a market where many vociferous people were instantly able to compare it with their own current day expectations based on other similar products, some of which have been around for years. What is difficult to understand is how Hornby didn't see this coming and the results it would bring.

QUOTE How can your opinion count if you have not owned, used or tried the product?
You don't need to have owned or driven either a Rolls Royce or a Mini to be able to compare the two. It may come as a shock, but there are people around who can work out for themselves what the capabilities of systems are from a glance at their specifications. Where confusion sets in is when people misinterpret what they think is happening, and don't have the expertise to express their findings to others in appropriate terms. No fault of their own, but that's how it is these days.

QUOTE There are Hornby Select owners who say that the console works remarkebly well and these comments are conveniently and routinely ignored. It could be that some of the reports are linked to owner inexperience with digital and DCC.
Every console will work well, assuming it is used within its own capabilities. This is presumably what Hornby are relying on, but too many people already know that similar systems can do far more, and wonder why Hornby pitched theirs so low.

QUOTE Model Rail Forum have reviewed Hornby decoders and they perform well for a budget decoder.
Their ability to control motors is not really in question - it is the blatant omission of mandatory requirements such as CV reading that most people (including myself) object to.

QUOTE PS Warley MRC are having an open day on 11th February. A large O gauge Class 47 Loco with sound was being tested last night with the Digitrax DCC set up used on the O gauge layout. It sounded absolutely fanatastic as it cruised around the large layout. Those who visit on 11th February are in for a treat!

Try doing it with a Hornby Select and see how awkward it is to control sounds with it!

 

[Gary]

Some interesting and fair comments and observations there Gordon. Many overlook the fact that the Hornby Select is a basic starter budget product and expect it do more than it or its accessories are capable of.

Still slightly confused on the conformance question. Are there two levels of NMRA testing as Gaugemaster claim conformance. Can a manufacturer claim this if they do not have a conformance warrant for the product?

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Sol]

If Gaugemaster have NMRA conformance, then the packaging, etc will carry the NMRA symbol of conformance - see http://www.nmra.org/standards/Candi/index.html.

Sol

 

[Oakydoke]

The Hornby effort may look pretty sick next to the Bachmann Dynamis ???

Maybe Hornby will be spurred on by the competition ???

 

[Ravenser]

Bachmann Dynamis will be competing with the Hornby Elite not the Select. It will be interesting to see which one is in the shops first , given the very short lead time Bachmann (not exactly noted for such things) were initially indicating .

The Compact is not too clever with DCC Sound either , I believe , as it has only 4 functions, and half of those awkwardly reached through a shift key? With the increasing profile of DCC Sound, another reason why the Compact is obsolete and in urgent need of replacement?

Nevertheless , the broad point is that 2 mid range DCC systems will shortly be available in a large number of local retail outlets across the UK for under £100.

This breaks the "established order " in DCC as it has been understood for almost 20 years , at least in the UK. Goodbye to the expectation that you will have to buy unseen kit from obscure grey market sources thousands of miles away. Goodbye to the £250 price point for a proper system. Goodbye to the massive price premium over other countries.

In a genuinely competitive market, you cannot possibly sustain a 25-30% higher price for your product in one European country against another just by structuring your supply chain arrangements (Let alone adjacent countries). Not when you have to compete against other producers in their home market.

In my industry , we simply cannot sustain a price premium of even 5% for the same product in one European country over another - even when there are significant economic justifications . But we operate in a competitive market

Presumably Dynamis will also be available via Lilliput? (And for Bachmann Spectrum in the US?) . If that is NOT announced at the forthcoming Nuremburg Toy Fair, we might conclude it is not quite so close or so proven as might first appear

 

[Brian Considine]

What's that banging in the background I can hear ?

Ah - it's Gary banging the Hornby drum again.

To be honest I was going to reply in depth to your thread Gary but Gordon has beaten me to it & I agree with everything he says. I can only add a couple of comments.

I would not buy a Hornby basic decoder - 2 digit address is no good to me - I do not have to buy one to try it - the spec tells me.

Yes, I have made negative remarks about the Select/decoder regarding the limitations,- this will not stop me trying a Sapphire when it's available.

No, I have not ignored the happy Select owners - if the system does what all they want then all the best to them.

The main problems seem to be when you start mixing DCC gear - there are very few issues using (in my experience) Lenz, Roco, Digitrax, ESU, Fleischmann, Uhlenbrook, Zimo & Gaugemaster. The problems seem to be when you introduce Hornby into the fold.

You did mention that someone had "the guts" to go out & buy a Hornby decoder - good point - how about you having "the guts" to directly answer my points then ?

I won't hold my breath for answer(s).

 

[Gary]

I'm not too sure what points you have made dbclass50 except to agree with the commonsense remarks of Gordon which anybody would have difficulty taking issue with.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Brian Considine]

These ones Gary ;

1) I would not buy a Hornby basic decoder - 2 digit address is no good to me - I do not have to buy one to try it - the spec tells me.

2) Yes, I have made negative remarks about the Select/decoder regarding the limitations,- this will not stop me trying a Sapphire when it's available.

3) No, I have not ignored the happy Select owners - if the system does what all they want then all the best to them.

4) The main problems seem to be when you start mixing DCC gear - there are very few issues using (in my experience) Lenz, Roco, Digitrax, ESU, Fleischmann, Uhlenbrook, Zimo & Gaugemaster. The problems seem to be when you introduce Hornby into the fold.

Thanks for responding though.

 

[Bilbo]

From another post it seems the Sapphire is a Lenz. That must make it better. Perhaps Hornby did a quick deal with Lenz to try and retrieve the situation

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE (Bilbo @ 25 Jan 2007, 06:24) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>From another post it seems the Sapphire is a Lenz. That must make it better. Perhaps Hornby did a quick deal with Lenz to try and retrieve the situation
Thats where the smart money is.

QUOTE Nevertheless , the broad point is that 2 mid range DCC systems will shortly be available in a large number of local retail outlets across the UK for under £100. Goodbye to the £250 price point for a proper system. Goodbye to the massive price premium over other countries.

Under a 100 quid for a DCC system is budget. Remember we're talking about DCC here not analogue controllers. You probably want to wait and see the price tag first before you make statements like that. The systems that go for 250 quid are substantially better than whats being offered by Bachmann and Hornby currently. Look at what Hornby had to leave out of it's system to get it to the low budget price. Look at the problems they are having with their low budget system. I don't think you can do DCC on the cheap yet. Not until it becomes mainstream and they're knocking out thousands of these systems will you get a proper system at a budget price. Bachmann at least seem to have someone who knows what they are doing to build their system to current requirements rather than those of five years ago like Hornbys but we don't know the price yet.

QUOTE Presumably Dynamis will also be available via Lilliput?
They would have some serious competition in a developed DCC market like Germany. Fleischman, Roco, Trix, Maerklin all have budget starter systems with good value starter sets and local support. Lilliput do not seem to have any starter sets in comparison. It may well be too hard as an overseas (American/Chinese) competitor unless as I suspect the system is made by ESU which would give them local support. If that was the case they would be well in with a go.

 

[Oakydoke]

QUOTE (Ravenser @ 24 Jan 2007, 16:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Bachmann Dynamis will be competing with the Hornby Elite not the Select.
I know that. It does seem to top the Elite too?
We'll soon see.

QUOTE (Ravenser @ 24 Jan 2007, 16:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Nevertheless , the broad point is that 2 mid range DCC systems will shortly be available in a large number of local retail outlets across the UK for under £100.

This breaks the "established order " in DCC as it has been understood for almost 20 years , at least in the UK. Goodbye to the expectation that you will have to buy unseen kit from obscure grey market sources thousands of miles away. Goodbye to the £250 price point for a proper system. Goodbye to the massive price premium over other countries.
Brilliantly put, I couldn't agree more.
All I can say is HURRAH!