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The problem with the logic regarding price increase equals better quality is the fact that they also jack up the prices of the older inferior less detailed models to levels that are similar to the new super detailed ones.The rrp of the grange now stands at 1p shy of a hundred quid. State of the art dcc ready locodrive and brand new. THe tender drive patriot is only 6.50 behind it. The archaic dean goods loco with its tender drive motor of airfix/mainline origins (motor and loco) now goes for just shy of £60 Its even a repeat of an old mainline running number and is just as unreliable.The diesels fare little better with hornby 37's and 47's deemed worthy of a £55 price tag for a model that is nearly as old as i am. The only old hornby diesel i might be tempted to part with that kind of money for is the class 56 and that isn't even one of theirs either.
As for heljan wanting £30 for a wagon they started the rest off on the stupid rolling stock prices with the dogfish at nearly £20 so its no surprise that they've exceeded that, lets hope the quality matches the asking price this time!
 

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It is also worth noting the effect the bachmann class 57 has had on the prices of its heljan counterpart which retailed at £30 more a few months ago and is now worth around the same if not less. Possibly the anticipation around the class 47 is already having a similar affect on that one too.
Another area the higher price=quality arguement falls flat on its face.
 

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This is the first time I think that hornby have had loco's priced through the magic ton mark whereas bachmann have done it for the last few years startng with the WD Austerity which in my opinion should've been DCC ready at least by now.

I think we've strayed a bit off the original thread (for a change) but the warning signs are possibly there for those companies who don't quite come up to scratch that financial security is far from assured especially if your product doesn't make the grade. Lima and Roco could be the first to go and others may follow.
The atmosphere at the Nurenburg show may reflect a bit of a downturn in the fortunes of the rail sector of late I can't recall going to so many quiet toyfalrs around a Christmas as this year both in terms of stalls and customers. Maybe the new games console releases have something to do with it.
You are right about the price of continental models being considerably higher than Uk ones and about shopping around for a good price. However I tend to wait til the release hype has died down and prices have come down unless it is something a bit special.
 

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I'm beginning to wonder if perhaps Bachmann have upped the stakes a little in recent years. There have been some close calls regards duplication and until last year one side has backed off and done something else firstly the grange with hornby then the class 66 with heljan. Now they've muscled in on the heljan class 47 and 57 significantly undercutting heljan and at the sametime improving on the model this after "nicking" one of hornby's oldest sellers the 9f and not forgetting the jinty They are even starting to dothe same in N scale against dapol. I wonder what is to follow?
 

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There is of course one particular retail firm who feel justified in pricing a model at £20-30 ABOVE the rrp just by renumbering and renaming it and giving it a certificate. I think a lot of you who buy the railway magazines will know who I mean. Funny isn't it if i rename and number a model it invariably lowers the price perhaps i should market it as a LTD edition of 1, I'm sure i could whip up a certificate to that effect.

I often wonder if they go to the trouble of renumbering the loco's they do that are the same as the manufacturers' releases.
 

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I know one retailer who adjusts his prices up depending which swopmeet he is at just so he can let the buyers haggle and think they have got something off. The classic example was the half dozen or so class 60's he received just before christmas not one of which sold for under £75 at a swopmeet, shop price about £60-65.
 

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I did wonder about the unusual first post on here. Another case of going off tack i guess its amazing how the longer threads do that.
 

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I have found that the better bargains are at the bigger swopmeets as they draw larger crowds, more sellers and therefore more competition, obviously there are sellers who will haggle a bit and others who have the attitude of if you don't want it at that price then someone else will one day.
Over the last couple of years i have been to loads in the north of England from Manchester to Hull and down towards the midlands a bit, to the NEC once and Mansfield a couple of times basically trying to find a bit of variety, the wife gets bored now spending every other sunday at these things so we only do the bigger ones or ones that are local. Prices tend to be cheaper for newer items at the Lancashire meets. Typically its the Harrogate show this weekend but there is also a good swopmeet at the Reebok stadium in Bolton then typically nothing local the week after.
 

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I have also seen the stupidly OTT pricing of items at the NRM. I think the sole aim of it is to get harassed parents to part with some cash after little junior has taken a fancy to them. Pure extortion in my book I wonder how hornby would view their policy. The bachmann stock did seem to be sold at full retail though.

Whats more worrying was when i was there they were replenishing the shelves so some poor mugs must've been buying.

Such liberties with pricing must give the wrong message to parents and kids as to the hobby being expensive especially if they follow up with a visit to their local TMC or modelzone or whatever they want to call it this week.

It might be interesting to get a response from the NRM about how they decide the prices.
 

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By the way can I just point out that this spellcheck is so useless it doesn't even recognise its own name!!

Using the learn option is useless too!
 

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I don't know why you should think that Chinese=quality anyway all they are doing is what they have always done and making copies of something. Just they do it at a fraction of the cost. If they weren't making loco's for hornby they would probably be copying designer goods for the counterfeit market.
There was even something on a few months ago saying that if you wanted to you could approach a Chinese factory to make practically anything and they could be up and running in about 3 months.
Remember all the cheap crap toys as a kid that were made in China and such places.

The increase in quality isn't from Chinese manufacture but the initial design.
I hate to worry you further but I've read that motorola are planning to open a plant in India, home of such wonderful products as the Mahindra jeep, Tata Gurkha and worst of all the short lived and virtually worthless now City rover

So think on it could be worse.
 

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I was merely trying to make a point that the next place to look for a reduction in labour costs is usually either the sub-continent or Africa, though i suppose they could stop off in Korea or Malaysia on the way.
It still amazes me that it is cheaper to produce something at the other side of the world,ship it over and pay the import duties than to have a factory over here.
Look at the rover thing this way then even the Chinese draw the line somewhere!
And i don't blame them after we gave them the equipment to build the Morris Ital in the early 90's. No wonder they all ride bikes!
By the way Gary i'm not offending a former Longbridge employee am I?
If I am I apologise but my general apathy towards the motor industry comes from a 13 year career in the repair trade.
Can't say i've had much to do with the City Rover yet apart from thinking how dull it looks.
 

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That is a very valid point of view Dennis regards the Japs, now we look to Japan as a benchmark of the quality we in the UK kid ourselves we once built to ourselves. The srandard of build quality in the UK has as double00 points out been diminished over the last half a century to the point where we now find ourselves at best assembling imported parts to make everything from cars to vacuum cleaners.
The Japanese still equate Made in Great Britain as top quality and ship back thousands of UK built cars every year. Where's the logic in that? Even the new BMW mini is assembled over here from parts made around the world The engine of the damn thing is either made in Brazil for the petrol ones or coimes from a Toyota for the diesel.
Its a sign of how times change that the west is happy to look to a country which not 20 years ago massacred anyone who opposed its way of living in order to fuel the consumerised way of life over here. I wonder what they pay per hour in the Chinese factories.
 

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Never worked on a diesel one yet but I like the way they tried to replicate the classic mini oops MINI gearbox whine by making the power steering pump so noisy!!
With regards to the smoking ban it's nice to see the fuss being made over the MPs rooms being exempt from it. As i see it it will just mean an even bigger pall of smoke outside everywhere that has banned it, much like going to the hospital or your local shopping centre. Something else to keep the busybodies in work enforcing it heaven forbid you should drop a tab end afterwards too. Just think a trip to the local railway station will be like the old days of steam with a large noxious cloud hovering around.
 

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As with most of the loco's i buy i am happy to wait for the initial hoo ha to die down and the prices start to drop before I buy one. I like the look of the M7 especially after seeing the one at the NRM I think it'll go nicely with the couple of other Southern engines I have (2 battle of Britains and a Q1) Incidentally the NRM Q1is back in residence at York after its loan spell elsewhere, its the first time i've seen one and it looks massive for an 0-6-0 engine I'm pushing 6'1" but my head was nearly in line with the top of the wheels and the gap under the boiler. I don't know whether it is just because of the sheer vertical sides or what but it seems positively towering even compared to some of the larger engines.
 

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On a similar vein to the heljan class 33 slowly dropping in price the hornby seacows are now available for between £12.50-15.00 depending on where you look but before christmas they were going out for £16-18. The newness has worn off after christmas and as with everything else the price is always better in the new year. I've just got the latest class 60 for £64.95 in loadhaul livery yet before christmas during the great shortage demand was so high they regularly went for full retail of £90 in EW&S colours.
 

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I fancied the weathered 50007 for £60 but they sold out in about a week (45-50 loco's) I'm sure they'll be on ebay in a few weeks for £100 plus.
Maybe i'll settly for a blue one at £50 instead.
 
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