General Discourse on Pricing
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>BMW mini
Pedantic note - that's MINI; and very nice they are too. At least when I paid over my hard earned cash (much more than for a City Rover!) for the Toyota engined model, the money for the chaps and chapesses who built it stayed in this country. Then there's all those lorry drivers I see every day taking MINIs to Southampton for export - something like 130,000!! last year. A nice solid quality (not so) little car and I get 55mpg average with BP Ultimate diesel aka 600 miles per tank.
David
Pedantic note - that's MINI; and very nice they are too. At least when I paid over my hard earned cash (much more than for a City Rover!) for the Toyota engined model, the money for the chaps and chapesses who built it stayed in this country. Then there's all those lorry drivers I see every day taking MINIs to Southampton for export - something like 130,000!! last year. A nice solid quality (not so) little car and I get 55mpg average with BP Ultimate diesel aka 600 miles per tank.
David
Never worked on a diesel one yet but I like the way they tried to replicate the classic mini oops MINI gearbox whine by making the power steering pump so noisy!!
With regards to the smoking ban it's nice to see the fuss being made over the MPs rooms being exempt from it. As i see it it will just mean an even bigger pall of smoke outside everywhere that has banned it, much like going to the hospital or your local shopping centre. Something else to keep the busybodies in work enforcing it heaven forbid you should drop a tab end afterwards too. Just think a trip to the local railway station will be like the old days of steam with a large noxious cloud hovering around.
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With regards to the smoking ban it's nice to see the fuss being made over the MPs rooms being exempt from it. As i see it it will just mean an even bigger pall of smoke outside everywhere that has banned it, much like going to the hospital or your local shopping centre. Something else to keep the busybodies in work enforcing it heaven forbid you should drop a tab end afterwards too. Just think a trip to the local railway station will be like the old days of steam with a large noxious cloud hovering around.
QUOTE Per Gary "The M7 is going to be Hornby's first superdetailed tank loco." I thought this was the Fowler 2-6-4T. About £10 cheaper I think , despite more complicated valve gear . Also my original comment stands - it can't be more complicated to construct than the 08.
If memory serves me correct the Fowler was a new body on a reworked existing chassis and using some of the previous detailing parts. Until the M7 is released nobody can really pass comment and make comparisons with existing models. What would it take to justify an £80 RRP in your opinion?
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Happy modelling
Gary
If memory serves me correct the Fowler was a new body on a reworked existing chassis and using some of the previous detailing parts. Until the M7 is released nobody can really pass comment and make comparisons with existing models. What would it take to justify an £80 RRP in your opinion?
Happy modelling
Gary
As with most of the loco's i buy i am happy to wait for the initial hoo ha to die down and the prices start to drop before I buy one. I like the look of the M7 especially after seeing the one at the NRM I think it'll go nicely with the couple of other Southern engines I have (2 battle of Britains and a Q1) Incidentally the NRM Q1is back in residence at York after its loan spell elsewhere, its the first time i've seen one and it looks massive for an 0-6-0 engine I'm pushing 6'1" but my head was nearly in line with the top of the wheels and the gap under the boiler. I don't know whether it is just because of the sheer vertical sides or what but it seems positively towering even compared to some of the larger engines.
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9,994 Posts
>Fowler
I saw a Fowler in the show case at the model shop I frequent. It looked really nice and I was tempted, but apart from having nowhere to run it at present, I have a Fairburn higher up my wish list. It was gone on my next visit - there was a hole in the ground where it used to be.. to paraphrase a song I once knew...
If the M7 is to the same or better standard, you're in for a real treat.
David
I saw a Fowler in the show case at the model shop I frequent. It looked really nice and I was tempted, but apart from having nowhere to run it at present, I have a Fairburn higher up my wish list. It was gone on my next visit - there was a hole in the ground where it used to be.. to paraphrase a song I once knew...
If the M7 is to the same or better standard, you're in for a real treat.
David
Gary asks "What would it take to justify an £80 RRP in your opinion? "
Actually thats the point. I would find it hard to justify £80 for a simple tank locomotive . I see from Railway Modeller that the discounted price will be £63.99. Still too much for a casual purchase.
Compared to Bachmann 4MTs and forthcoming Fairburn tank, which look to be displaying all the detail I need, I still can't see how Hornby can justify the price.
What is an essential, however, is that the model runs well straight from the box. No quartering problems, squeeking gearboxes etc
Russell
Actually thats the point. I would find it hard to justify £80 for a simple tank locomotive . I see from Railway Modeller that the discounted price will be £63.99. Still too much for a casual purchase.
Compared to Bachmann 4MTs and forthcoming Fairburn tank, which look to be displaying all the detail I need, I still can't see how Hornby can justify the price.
What is an essential, however, is that the model runs well straight from the box. No quartering problems, squeeking gearboxes etc
Russell
QUOTE Actually thats the point. I would find it hard to justify £80 for a simple tank locomotive
Now the Euro modellers have to constantly justify £100 to £150 for a simple tank loco. Why is it so hard to justify this for a Hornby model?
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Hornby are possibly moving into uncharted waters with detail previously unseen on UK outline and there appears to be a move into uncharted waters on the RRP front also.
Remember that the old M7 had an opening smoke box door and boiler detail and a glow in the firebox in the cab. Are Hornby about to better this?
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And if Hornby can reproduce the slow running qualities of the Class 08 in the M7 then it will definitely be a treat!
Happy modelling
Gary
Now the Euro modellers have to constantly justify £100 to £150 for a simple tank loco. Why is it so hard to justify this for a Hornby model?
Hornby are possibly moving into uncharted waters with detail previously unseen on UK outline and there appears to be a move into uncharted waters on the RRP front also.
Remember that the old M7 had an opening smoke box door and boiler detail and a glow in the firebox in the cab. Are Hornby about to better this?
And if Hornby can reproduce the slow running qualities of the Class 08 in the M7 then it will definitely be a treat!
Happy modelling
Gary
I'm not at all surprised as its a great little collectable to own if you can find one that is undamaged with the boiler door still on its hinge. It was one of Hornby's best sellers when originally released and so holds a lot of memories for a lot of todays grown up modellers. Every Model Rail Forum member should own a Triang M7!
Happy modelling
Gary
Happy modelling
Gary
Something else to think about. I have checked UK inflation statistics and something today should be priced at around 11 times what it was in 1968. An M7 in 1968 was around the £3 mark. So the same model if sold today would be around £33.
Flying Scotsman then was around £5.50 so it should sell today for about £60.
It actually sells for about £80.
Now think about how it compares with the very first Flying Scotsman.
Todays Flying Scotsman is absolutely remarkable value when the comparison is made.
Evening Star when first released was about £8. Now 10 times this is £80. The last Hornby super detailed version could be picked up for less money!
A double straight section of track then was about 16p so it should sell today for about £1.75. It actually sells for significantly less!
This hobby is possibly giving better value now for each pound spent than it did in the late 1960's!
Happy modelling
Gary
Flying Scotsman then was around £5.50 so it should sell today for about £60.
It actually sells for about £80.
Now think about how it compares with the very first Flying Scotsman.
Todays Flying Scotsman is absolutely remarkable value when the comparison is made.
Evening Star when first released was about £8. Now 10 times this is £80. The last Hornby super detailed version could be picked up for less money!
A double straight section of track then was about 16p so it should sell today for about £1.75. It actually sells for significantly less!
This hobby is possibly giving better value now for each pound spent than it did in the late 1960's!
Happy modelling
Gary
Before Christmas 2005, I bought a Heljan c33 diesel from Rails of Sheffield for £61.50 a discounted price to the RRP. I noticed today the identical c33 is now offered at £58.00.
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The rivet counters brigade, certainly will cry out the reason for the dropped price "roof not correct" - is this the modern way to reduce prices by giving a new model the poorest review possible.
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The rivet counters brigade, certainly will cry out the reason for the dropped price "roof not correct" - is this the modern way to reduce prices by giving a new model the poorest review possible.
To be honest double00 you could be right.
However its up to manufacturers to not give the rivet counters the excuse.
I think its general commercial practice to gently lower prices on shelf items until stock is finally cleared. Things average out over the shelf life of the product from a retail perspective. Some items take longer to shift than others.
However, once an item is absolutely sold out then everybody wants it and Ebay prices skyrocket as it then has a rarity value! There is one dealer I know who only sells Hornby and Bachmann items 2 years after he has had the stock delivered. And he does rather well selling for about 10% above RRP!
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Of course in the ideal world all stock is sold within days of arrival at RRP.
Happy modelling
Gary
However its up to manufacturers to not give the rivet counters the excuse.
I think its general commercial practice to gently lower prices on shelf items until stock is finally cleared. Things average out over the shelf life of the product from a retail perspective. Some items take longer to shift than others.
However, once an item is absolutely sold out then everybody wants it and Ebay prices skyrocket as it then has a rarity value! There is one dealer I know who only sells Hornby and Bachmann items 2 years after he has had the stock delivered. And he does rather well selling for about 10% above RRP!
Of course in the ideal world all stock is sold within days of arrival at RRP.
Happy modelling
Gary
On a similar vein to the heljan class 33 slowly dropping in price the hornby seacows are now available for between £12.50-15.00 depending on where you look but before christmas they were going out for £16-18. The newness has worn off after christmas and as with everything else the price is always better in the new year. I've just got the latest class 60 for £64.95 in loadhaul livery yet before christmas during the great shortage demand was so high they regularly went for full retail of £90 in EW&S colours.
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I perused Rails of Sheffield c35 Hymek Heljan and note that the price today is £59.50 and only 3 in stock. Hornby c35 Hymek £45.50. Unable to find a Hymek at £39.50 but accept to be proved wrong.
Rails stocks are very low, as most marked "Forth coming releases" or "on order".
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Rails stocks are very low, as most marked "Forth coming releases" or "on order".
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