Model Railway Forum banner

Gladiator B16/1 A North Eastern Workhorse

10635 Views 44 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  Rob Pulham
The next build to cross my workbench is another one that's not for me but for the same Gent that I built the G5 for last year. This one is a finish it off build of a Gladiator B16/1

This is where I am starting from.

The main body work and the basic chassis are built. The chassis is to be rigid and pick up is to be by the American method.

The kit contains lots of lovely brass castings

Plus some nice whitemetal ones too.

I have the week off and I will be at home the week after Easter so I plan to make a start on this then. Any spare time on between after finishing of the V4 brake van will be spent blackening wheels and preparing the castings etc.
See less See more
21 - 40 of 45 Posts
Following on from a comment about not being able get at the coal by Jim Snowden on the guild forum, further work was done last night to represent the sliding plate on the front of the coal chute.

Without taking the front back off and doing major surgery I had to employ a little subterfuge to give the impression of a sliding plate but I feel that once painted it will look the part.

I also managed to get the front upper coal plate fitted and the lifting rings.

I still need to add the steps to the sides of the coal chute but that's about as far as I will go on this build (I keep forgetting "straight from the box"...) - I have lots of ideas for future builds of my own though.
See less See more
Yesterday having cut short a long weekend up north by yours truly forgetting to take his medication along I looked more closely at the brake and water scoop standards. I had more dialogue on RMweb with MikeMeg on the subject last week and he had remade the 4mm versions. I thought initially that although slightly on the fine side that the castings looked usable. - By fine they are quite slender in appearance whereas the photo posted earlier show them to be quite chunky, especially where the mounting pieces.

These are the castings provided.

The problem came when testing them against the tender front (stuck in place temporarily with bluetac).

Despite my cutting them off the sprue with as much length as possible, they are short in the column length

I couldn't see any immediate way of extending the column* A better person than me might have been able cut it of and drill out the fixing brackets but they looked a bit on the fine side for me to be confident that I could achieve it so I decided to have a go at making some replacements.

Now I have to be honest at this point and say that this really became a test exercise to see what I could achieve with my Proxxon mini pillar drill with the X-Y table attachment. I have been looking for something to try it out in anger, having only drilled out 4 buffer stocks since I got it at Christmas.

They took me all day to make but I really enjoyed it and I have parts roughed out to make a couple more for a build for myself at some point. to give an idea of scale/chunkiness the new columns are made from 1.6mm rod.

*Thinking about it afterwards I could possibly have joined an extension piece onto the castings where they go through the wooden floor extension that's shown on the photo of the tender front.
See less See more
its all good Rob, I'll be covering my trial by "rivets" soon.

See less See more
Another session last night brought the tender a little nearer to completion.

I managed to get all the whitemetal castings soldered on. I still haven't decided whether to fit the small steps at either side of the coal chute or not the jury is still out.

I haven't soldered the coal space/tender front in yet because I want to be able to get at the hand rails, lamp irons etc from the back before I do, then the last job will should be making the corners for the flares.

See less See more
Due to having a lot on at work I haven't been able to get back to the B16 until Sunday afternoon and yesterday.

Still good progress has been made since then with most of the tender detailing cracked. I found that the rear tender flare overlay wasn't on straight to that had to come off and be straightened.

The coal space is still loose until I get the brake/water scoop standards in place - I figure it will be easier to drill the floor if it lifts out.

Note the longer hand rail at the front of the tender. This seems to have been a feature of a few of the B16 tenders and thankfully you can make it out on the one photo of 61450 that I have found to date.

The small steps were a bit of a fiddle but worth the effort I think.

See less See more

You sure do fine work, and I very much enjoy your "how I did it" type threads.

Question: what do you use to "blacken" the wheels; I must assume that whatever it is doesn't interfere with the wheels abilities to conduct electricity...? Over here "we" often use a product called "Neolube", but it can reduce the electrical footprint of a loco...


Mark in Oregon
This week has been a good one at the bench seeing the tender almost complete.

The brake/water scoop standards rotate and you now need to unscrew them to get the chassis from the body.

When refitting the chassis during testing the cranks on the bottom of the shafts of the standards I realised that the brake rods were catching on the outer frame and had held one end of the chassi from fitting flat to the underside of the body. There is a plate with a slot in it in which two slots in the front ends of the inner chassis engage this was about 1.5 too high. To cure it I adjusted the offending brake spreaders and the rods inwards and then with the chassis upside down and engaged in the slots I used the microflame to run around the etches of the plate while pressing on the underside of the chassis with a block of wood. After a few moments the plate eased slowly downwards into the correct position and when the solder set again it was as it should have been.

As far as I can tell there is just the vacuum pipe and the axleboxes/spring castings to fit. I may also make the central 'buffer' from styrene but I will see how it goes when I test the running to see if it needs it.

Next it's on to detailing the chassis before tackling the body details.
See less See more
With the tender virtually complete my return from Doncaster saw a start made on detailing the loco chassis. I add the springs to the drivers and then looked at the brake gear.
The instructions are along the lines of fit parts.... with a couple of build photos to assist with the general positioning.

Thankfully looking at prototype pictures helped answer most questions. the first being how the hanger mounts fit
There is a better view in Yeadon but I found this and it saved me scanning the book.

As with some older kits, the forks in the etches for the rods connecting the brake spreaders are a little over etched so needed bushing.

By accident or design some scrap from the chassis etches folded over the spreader was just the right thickness to fill the gap.

They just need soldering together once fitted.
See less See more
A slight diversion from work on the chassis has had me looking at the oil boxes that are quite prominent on the sides of the frames above the footplate.

Although I have some castings they are too long and wouldn't cut down very well so I decided to have a bash at making some from scratch.

I measured the length of three together and marked it off on a length of square bar and then marked a line 1mm from the top, along what will be the front edge. Next I filed the marked section down to the line at the front while maintaining the full height at the back. - To give me a sloping top.

A strip of scrap etch to form a lid and another length with two rivets punched in either end forms the mounting bracket.

Before cutting each individual oil box off the bar I drilled holes for the pipes in the bottom and then added some 08mm OD tube and length of fine brass beading wire to represent the oil pipes. Three down three more to make for the other side but at least two of them don't need the tube/pipes fitted because they sit on the splasher top.

See less See more
After an exciting weekend doing other things I got back to the B16 last night and cracked on with fitting the brakes.

I wound a few layers of masking tape around the wheels to both space the brake shoes away from the wheels and to help reduce the risk of rusting from soldering with the wheels in place.

I was forewarned by a gent on RMweb who has recently built a 4mm version of this kit that the length of the yokes that fit to the brake spreaders is a bit long and so it was with the 7mm version. I used a diamond disk in the Dremel to cut a slot in the brake spreader to allow the fork in the yoke to slip back and effectively shorten the rod. - see photo above.

I also need to shorten the rod that connects to brake the the link below the ab too. The plan is to solder a piece of scrap to the end with the boss on and file a second boss which will allow me to create a forked joint once I shorten the rod.

See less See more
QUOTE (Rob Pulham @ 28 Jun 2017, 18:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I also need to shorten the rod that connects to brake the the link below the ab too. The plan is to solder a piece of scrap to the end with the boss on and file a second boss which will allow me to create a forked joint once I shorten the rod.

Which I duly did on Wednesday night. In fact I was feeling pretty pleased with myself until this morning when by chance I found a photo which showed me exactly how the brake gear should fit at the cab end.

It will be good news to David (Hill) that in fact you don't need to shorten the rod to the cab rear at all, you just need to connect it to the right lever from the cross shaft.

All being well I should have it corrected on Monday evening and I will post before and after photos to show how I got it wrong initially. In the hope that it will prevent someone else from making the same mistake. I have say that the instructions are lacking in this area being of the 'fit parts X,Y,Z,' styke and an email to Steve Barnfield although it elicited a response didn't help because he couldn't remember how it fitted.

To give Steve due credit he did offer to assist in person if I was in his area but I am a long way from him.
See less See more
It seems like a while since I updated this thread so it must have been a good holiday.

Time has been spent since getting back on the little things that take time and don't seem to evidence much progress but all add to the overall picture.

I have started looking at the upperworks starting with the cab fittings. A lot of the detail is cast on to the backhead and there are some castings supplied. Sadly a lot of the detail is a bit low relief so I suspect that I will remove and remake most of it.

I add some fine brass wire to the gauges

I also made up some washout plug bases these are two layers of brass with a stub of square section brass inserted. The plan is that this will be soldered behind the holes in the firebox and then half etched surrounds soldered over them. A length of square section was included in the box but I am unsure as to whether this comes with the kit or it was provided by the owner.

I also soldered the elbow provided onto a length of tube for the vacuum ejector pipe.
See less See more
Although other things have been taking a priority at this busy time of the year (for us), the B16 has been ticking along slowly. After consultation with the gent that I am building it for, the plan is only to replace the detail that is supplied as brass castings in the kit.

I have added the lockers/splasher tops inside the cab and cut the backhead to fit. I have also done most of what will be replaced with just one casting to fit tonight. - shown below the cab rear. This will fit to the left of the backhead below the hand wheel and where the ghost of the cast pipe can still be seen - must do a better job of smoothing it of before putting the new one in place. The pipe work for the water gauges is very fine and a bit flimsy so I knocked up a couple of pipe clips from scrap and soldered them in place. I suspect that I will need to do the same with the final pipe when I have it in place.

See less See more
Moving on, the back head is now finished as far as it's planned and looking at the cab photo I have, there is quite a prominent dial on the rear of the left cabside. This was quickly replicated with a dial, a slice of brass tube and a strip of thickish brass bar (it's mounted on a thick wooden plinth). Sadly none of that invisible solder here. It is all pre clean up though.

Then came the cab roof which was another of those jobs that I had put off a couple of times for no logical reason. It went to get well and the design makes it fit the cab very nicely and it's much better than some I have done. I still need to add the ventilator and I think the whistle but I will check that. I also need to adjust the feed pipe to the gauge everso slightly as it's a bit high up on the cab side making the roof rock ever so slightly.

You can see where I had to make a cut out for the plinth to fit.

See less See more
Although I haven't posted much on this having concentrated on the caoches I have been making steady progress on the B16.

The tender is now complete with it's missing Vacuum pipe and axleboxes and just needs a good scrub before I take any photos.

From the previous photos I have fitted the cab roof and working back from the cab I have also fitted the cab side hand rails

I also started work on the washout plugs, and for the upper part of the firebox in the timeframe of this model, the oval base plate had been replaced with a round one.

In the kit these are represented by a circular half etched overlay but those in the kit were a little over etched therefore a bit on the flimsy side. So I made some replacements from some nickel rod threaded 14ba to these I added some Markits Crankpin washers (my last so I need to get some more) and a 14BA nut to finish.

Last thing, I gave it a good clean up scraping off lots of the excess solder that had built up in various areas.
See less See more
Washout Plugs, Proper

Not much modelling done this week due to not being at my best, but a bit of thinking in the lucid moments and looking at photographs of B16's. The conclusion that I reached is that washout plugs on B61/1's are a nightmare. Almost every photo you look at has different numbers in different positions - No Swindon standardisation here...

So I settled on the understanding that the loco that I am building '61450' had three on the right hand side and two on the left (looking forward from the cab). 61450, would also have to be one of these with the foremost washout plug on the front corner of the firebox. Working out how to do that took a bit of head scratching.

As I have said before, mostly those things that require most head scratching and trepidation prove to be simpler to just get on and do. So it was with this one. I marked off where each one would sit and drilled a small pilot hole. For the four that are sat square to the side I just kept using slightly bigger drill bits until I hit the size for the previously made backing plugs.

For the one at the corner of the firebox, I drilled a pilot quite close to the edge of the side of the firebox and again started to make it bigger. I stopped short two or three sizes smaller than I needed for the others and then using an oval diamond file, I filed the front of the firebox adjacent to the hole so that I had a 3/4 hole in either face of the firebox. I then used a round burr in my Dremel to ease it to final size.

Fitting the backing plugs and getting them in position was fun, it took at least three attempts on all but one of them. Once they were all soldered in place it was time to add the half etched overlays to the firebox sides around the holes. I tinned them all while still on the fret then cut them out and filed of the tag.

I decided to use the microflame to solder them in position because I reasoned that using the soldering iron (aside from the possibility of getting solder all over where I didn't want it), would possibly nudge them out of position too. This created the dilemma of heating the front face while making sure that the plug didn't drop off the inside of the firebox. to get around this I cut some short lengths of coffee stirrer and wedged them between the two washout plugs inside the firebox and away I went. - I did manage to set fire to one which gave Chris a bit of a moment....

On a couple I had to add the tiniest spec of extra solder to get them firm and the one folding around the front of the firebox took a few attempts to get it seated properly in both planes but I got there in the end. They still need cleaning up but not as much as they would have if I had attempted to use the iron to solder them on.

They are one of those details that will fade away once lost in the overall paintwork but which would be very noticeable if they weren't there. The plus point is that now that I have done them once doing them again on other locos will be quite straightforward.
See less See more
As mentioned briefly elsewhere the detailing of the B16 is coming along nicely but not without minor frustrations.

This is where I have got to so far -

On to the frustrations, earlier I had made the oil boxes that sit on the front splasher tops, the first one on the right hand splasher too about 10 attempts to solder it on, I would get it positioned and then clamped with self locking tweezers but each time I reached for the soldering iron to solder it from the back the blessed thing either moved or fell off. Finally I got it soldered in place and decided to do the other one. This was even worse, after three failed attempts to solder it on, it flew off into space and despite a good grovel I couldn't find it. So I set to and made another, blow me if the same thing didn't happen again. A couple or three failed attempts then twang.....
With the third iteration I filed a slight hollow in the base front to back so that it sat better on the splasher top and I managed to solder it on first go.

Next I made up and fitted the operating rod on the right hand side that was fitted to some locos. The casting was provided in the kit but I scratched the level from some scrap etch. This was all fairly straight forward as was drilling the foot plate and rear splashers and fitting the other oil boxes with the pipes. The boiler furniture again all went smoothly apart from the dome.

My dome casting was ever so slightly misshapen so that the oval of the dome when viewed from the top was at odds with the curvature of the boiler. As I said it was only marginally out but enough to make the dome sit slightly out of square (if a round object can sit square....) As it turns out it was a blessing in disguise because as designed the kit only caters for the earlier type of boiler. As I understand it the main visible difference between them being the position of the dome either astride a boiler band or between them.

To remedy the misshape I cut of the threaded spigot from the bottom and then using a ball shaped burr I ground out the remnants of it mounting and then I wrapped a strips of sanding belt around the boiler and twisting ever so slightly I rubbed away at the casting until it sat down 'squarely' the added bonus was that I was then able to move it back quite a way so that it only just covered the etched hole in the boiler. While ot 100% in the right place it's a lot better visually than had I just fitted it through the etched hole and moved on

See less See more
This week work on the B16 has continued to flow.

The lubricators are on and although you get plain castings I drilled them out to add the pipework inside some microbore tube that I picked up earlier in the year from Barry of MetalSmiths fame.

There was a thread on the Guild site discussing drilling brass castings and one of the suggestions (besides buying proper drill bits) was to heat to a cherry red heat and let the casting cool naturally. I have used this method before and it has to be said without much success. I decided to try again and I have come to the conclusion that previously I just didn't get it red enough - this time the cheapo Microbox type drills went through it like butter. I did you my Proxxon Mini Pillar drill though.

You know when something niggles at you that there's something not quite right? Well I had the feeling and finally pinned it down to the fact that the chimney was just not quite on square so I heated it up and attempted to nudge it. I must have been a bit vigorous because the next second it was on the floor. The good news is that in knocking it off I had spread the solder a little in the right direction and putting it on square was a simple matter of putting it in place and then heating it with the microflame until it sank down in the solder. A little cleaning up and I was happy
See less See more
21 - 40 of 45 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.