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I have one of the Hornby Class 73's which as all know has this new motor. No matter how much weight I stuck in it di not seem to make much difference. A chap on the Hornby forum said he asked for and received replacement wheels with traction tyres. So I did the same and within a week have received and just fitted them. The result is vastly improved hauling power.
So I appreciate this fast service from Hornby and I think it's important to say so.
It seems to me (without restarting a traction tyre debate) that unless a loco has an encased central motor traction tyres become inevitable. I think Hornby's error in this case was in trying too hard to accommodate a segment of our hobby (still trying to be diplomatic!).
Of course none of this is a problem for our Continental friends.
 

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QUOTE (ozwarrior @ 19 Oct 2007, 04:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Of course none of this is a problem for our Continental friends.


Nice to see credit being given when due & full marks to Hornby for their service in this case.

I tend to do the opposite with new Roco OHE & diesels that I run personally - I order traction tyreless axel sets & fit them. Be great if we had alternatives supplied with every locomotive.
 

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I have a class 73 Hornby & also found it was lacking in pulling power - just 3 coaches on the flat.
Increased weight in & around the motor bogie & in the middle by another 70grams ( 2.5 oz) & now it takes 5 coaches up a 1:60 gradient with no hesitation.
Rubber tyres are not on my list of improvements.
 

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You have to ask yourself: why, if Vitrains can put a centre drive chassis into a European built model diesel model, and sell it at 'Railroad' price, can Hornby with the benefit of Chinese manufacturing not put centre drive into their Lima reintroductions?
 

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QUOTE You have to ask yourself: why, if Vitrains can put a centre drive chassis into a European built model diesel model, and sell it at 'Railroad' price, can Hornby with the benefit of Chinese manufacturing not put centre drive into their Lima reintroductions?

Exactly right 34c. While applauding Hornby's customer service in supplying new wheelsets, this model should never have been released with such pathetic pulling power in the first place. This would never have happened in Richard Lines time at Triang and later Triang Hornby. It seems to me that Hornby are so much after the fast buck margin that they will churn out any old model in the hope that we will buy it......which most unfortuately do!

I also question why it is that Vitrains can produce a reasonable spec model - with lights and DCC ready for a lower price than most of the current Hornby "LIMBY" range. Some ones creaming profit somewhere.

Russell
 

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QUOTE (34C @ 19 Oct 2007, 10:51) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You have to ask yourself: why, if Vitrains can put a centre drive chassis into a European built model diesel model, and sell it at 'Railroad' price, can Hornby with the benefit of Chinese manufacturing not put centre drive into their Lima reintroductions?

IMHO the operative words are profit, shareholders & retooling.
 

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QUOTE You have to ask yourself: why, if Vitrains can put a centre drive chassis into a European built model diesel model, and sell it at 'Railroad' price, can Hornby with the benefit of Chinese manufacturing not put centre drive into their Lima reintroductions?

ViTrains are not offering their locos to stockists at trade Railroad prices. The stockists are having to mark the locos down to shift them eating into their margins. Not much profit in that for the poor old stockist is there?


You would have to question the viability of the ViTrains UK models long term if this trend continues.

Conversely Railroad stuff is actually selling very nicely and everybody seems content with margins.

Hornby have listened to their customers and now fit traction tyres to their more recent ex Lima model releases to improve hauling. Its good to hear of the top service that ozwarrier got from Hornby.

Happy modelling
Gary
 

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Gary, while Hornby has some 'Good service' points for some problems, fixing a major problem of haulage by fitting traction tyres is to me a backward step.
I only hope that the catalogues/ web pages will specify which locos are fitted with traction tyres & type of motor so that discerning modellers can make up their mind if they want one of these types of locos.
I am glad I already have the Hornby GWR Railcar & Class 73 before they fitted tyres otherwise I would not have purchased them. I fixed my Class 73 haulage problem with some extra weight over the motor bogie.
 

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There are clear signs that ViTrains are pumping out 37 varients faster than the market can stand, and that prices are being marked down to try to shift the things. There is more to the railway , after all, than cl 37 , and there is an alternative ,and superior, model out there. Added to which the market hasn't exactly been starved of 37s with decent drive in the past - there have been two previous Bachmann 37s which have been available for 6-7 years.

I would also question the long term viablity of Vi-Trains UK venture if they continue to pump out products that simply duplicate existing high spec models from other manufacturers . Bachmann have a 37/0 varient coming next year so what's Vi-Trains second loco - a 37/0. There are only so many people who want to buy a 37, and I think most already have one

One area where the RailRoad range may have a significant impact is on secondhand prices. When Hornby are selling new wagons at the equivalent of £3 each , can the current market price for second hand wagons of £4-50 really be sustainable? At present second hand wagons are really too expensive for detailing conversion projects

As for traction tyres, I'd really rather not have them on the DMUs , where haulage is not an issue. For most of us reliable slow speed running over pointwork is a much more pressing issue than whether it can haul 8, 10, 12, or 14 coaches, and traction tyres definitely make stalling much more likely. And if you want a 66 , buy a Bachmann one
 

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QUOTE (Ravenser @ 22 Oct 2007, 12:28) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>One area where the RailRoad range may have a significant impact is on secondhand prices. When Hornby are selling new wagons at the equivalent of £3 each , can the current market price for second hand wagons of £4-50 really be sustainable? At present second hand wagons are really too expensive for detailing conversion projects

Last week I agreed with Gary - this week with Ravenser !

Seriously though Ravenser, excellent point & I totally agree. We attended a show over the last weekend with the trade stand & all of the dealers who trade in used/second hand UK items (we don't fortunatly for us) were complaining about the Railroad Range - the bottom really has dropped out of that particular market segment (apart from the "mint boxed/rare" items).

Interestingly, some Roco wagons are very keenly priced, to the extent that a few buyers over the weekend thought that we had underpriced them.
 

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QUOTE all of the dealers who trade in used/second hand UK items (we don't fortunatly for us) were complaining about the Railroad Range

Secondhand traders should be keeping their eye on the ball.

I wonder what plans Hornby have for using their massive archive of tampo printing?

Hornby need to be a little careful though as they don't want to upset the collectors who do make up a fair proportion of their customers. If collectors believe Hornby will reissue stuff at some later date in the Railroad range then it makes new wagon (and loco?) liveries in the normal price range less desirable.

Of course there are those here who believe that it does not matter if Hornby upset collectors but the fact is it does matter as collectors do spend a thick wadge and provide liquidity!

If Hornby focus on reissung ex Lima stuff in the Railroad range then it would be impossible to upset Hornby collectors and Lima collectors are already very upset (Lima collector =
) so it would be almost impossible to upset them further!


Happy modelling
Gary
 

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QUOTE (Gary @ 22 Oct 2007, 15:56) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Of course there are those here who believe that it does not matter if Hornby upset collectors but the fact is it does matter as collectors do spend a thick wadge and provide liquidity!

No doubt they do, but the number of collectors I feel must be heavily outweighed by those that buy trains and models for the express purpose of using them. I would suggest that the collectors are the cherry on the icing on the cake.

Regards
 

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QUOTE (Gary @ 22 Oct 2007, 15:56) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Secondhand traders should be keeping their eye on the ball.
Happy modelling
Gary

As you know yourself Gary, sometimes you can have stock for some time before it sells & not always because its priced too highly - for example last weekend we sold a couple of locomotives that we had had for nearly 2 years - they were well priced & reasonably popular models.

While they be be some lack of sympathy with the big bad traders the flip side is of course the fact that anything the modeller wants to sell is worth less as well !

From what I know of the (high end ?) real collectors market re-issues will have little impact on prices of the really sort after stuff - surely the real die hard collector will always want an original ?, so, unless Hornby re-issue locomotives with X04's with perfectly reproduced packaging down to every correct detail there will be no problem for most people. In fact, more interest with re-issues may just increase the value of the originals.
 

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QUOTE There are clear signs that ViTrains are pumping out 37 varients faster than the market can stand, and that prices are being marked down to try to shift the things.

That would appear to be correct. I've seen a ViTrains 37 marked down to £27.50 !

However there is an assumption that Vitrains are stupid people by bringing out a 37. Clearly they are not and must have taken advice from the Hobby Company about the Bachmann (and Hornby) models before they went ahead. The fact that they thought they could launch a model at £50 rrp with a good spec motor/chassis and make money suggests a number of items in the market are overpriced. While I can see models like the 50,31 and 60 are superb models are they really worth £40 more than a ViTrains 37? As for the ex LIMBY stuff and the 25/29/35/37/47/58 these models must have had their tooling costs written off years ago- why are people still paying £50 for inferior models?

Come on ViTrains - shake the market out of its complacency- lets have more!

Russell
 

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QUOTE (Cameron @ 22 Oct 2007, 19:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>How about a Class 73


Well there's been no shortage of livery variations over the years. I can think of ten or so without really trying.

Regards
 
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