[Peter_Harvey]

Hi Guys

Dose any body know what types of modern type colour light Ground Signals are available and who makes them?

Pete

 

[John Webb]

Eckon show a "ES24 Position light ground signal" in their advert in the current 'Railway Modeller' - no web-site - contact CCH Models on 01255 814639. This is the standard triangle arrangement and uses LEDs under the baseboard with 'crystal' optics, whatever they may be.

(I note that Guagemaster are their trade distributers, so it might be worth looking at www.gaugemaster.com or other model railway supplier sites.)
Regards,
John Webb

 

[alibuchan]

there is a company in the hornby magazine. if you dont have it i will look when i get home for you.

Alistair

 

[Gwent rail]

QUOTE (Peter_Harvey @ 16 Apr 2007, 10:28) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Guys

Dose any body know what types of modern type colour light Ground Signals are available and who makes them?

Pete

Hi Pete, Another worth a try is Rail Room Electronics from Wareham in Dorset. A very helpful guy who can be contacted on 01929 550623, or look up his website on Visit My Website
Jeff

 

[Paxman]

I have a couple of examples of the Eckon GPL signals (4mm). I believe these are of the older type that show either two white indications (proceed) or a white and red (stop). I maybe able to post a picture from home.

As far as I know, Eckon and Berko are the same manufacturer, but the Eckon versions come pre-assembled and therefore cost a little more, while Berko comes in kit form and costs less. To my knowledge there is no fully illustrated catalogue available for the Eckon/Berko range, but a partial catalogue is available and viewable from online retailers like Ontracks (usual disclaimer applies).

I will check, but I think the Eckon/Berko range includes Call On heads as well, if you need those. There are 2mm scale examples as well.

Roger Murray will manufacture a wider selection of 4mm scale GPLs to order - and I have just learned he is (thankfully) still in business. However, even he was sceptical ( a couple of years ago) about manufacturing the very latest style of GPLs in use on the prototype, which I believe no longer use the traditional red/white indication.

Hope this helps.

 

[Edwin]

QUOTE (Paxman @ 16 Apr 2007, 13:08) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>However, even he [Roger Murray] was sceptical ( a couple of years ago) about manufacturing the very latest style of GPLs in use on the prototype, which I believe no longer use the traditional red/white indication.

The latest ones do indeed display two reds horizontally for stop, and two white lights inclined for proceed. The 'pivot light' is a cluster that can display red or white, like the marker/tail lights on the latest rolling stock. A lot of older signals have been retro-fitted with this arrangement too.

I would have thought something would be possible using either a red-white bi-colour LED or a RGB LED, perhaps with a fibre optic. That's easy for me to say, as I'm far too incompetent to try it! Red-white LEDs do exist though the usual electronic suppliers didn't carry them last time I checked. I read on another forum that DCC Concepts is thinking of commissioning one, though he was talking about a 3mm version which would be a bit big for this job!

 

[Paxman]

Ah, Edwin confirms what I thought about the more modern GPLs.

Here are a couple of shots of the Eckon kits (it's the Berko ones that are pre-assembled). No prizes for the photography but you should get an idea.

This one shows the "light guides" which are acrylic optics for transmitting the light from the LEDs to the model.



This image is a little clearer.

 

[dwb]

These look very interesting! When were they introduced? I'm modelling the '50s but the thought of working disc signals is far beyond my capabilities at the moment.

I have a photo in the gallery of one of these signals at Kingswear. You get there using this link. If you can't see it, click on the image to see it full size and then look at the bottom centre.

David

 

[Peter_Harvey]

thanks for that Paxman I have ordered some this afternoon but its nice to see what they look like.

Pete

 

[Paxman]

QUOTE (dwb @ 16 Apr 2007, 20:30) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>These look very interesting! When were they introduced? I'm modelling the '50s but the thought of working disc signals is far beyond my capabilities at the moment.

I have a photo in the gallery of one of these signals at Kingswear. You get there using this link. If you can't see it, click on the image to see it full size and then look at the bottom centre.

David

I don't know the answer to that, David. Quite a while, I think. I was speaking to David at Ontracks a few years back and he was lamenting that CCH, who make the Eckon/Berko range, do not seem to take full advantage of the marketing side of things - no fully comprehensive catalogue or pictures of each product, for example. Which in this day and age is surprising (and I would have thought, reduces sales).

Older modellers must know the history of these products...?

I'm very grateful CCH market these, and the rest of their range, though - astounding to me that there aren't more working British-outline signals available (semaphore or colour light). Without CCH (and Roger Murray for the more complex items) we'd be stuffed.

Nice photo, by the way!

QUOTE (Peter_Harvey @ 16 Apr 2007, 22:15) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>thanks for that Paxman I have ordered some this afternoon but its nice to see what they look like.

Pete

You're welcome, Pete. I'm an amateur signal nut, and the thought of completing my layout without them is...unthinkable. I want fully working signals and if possible interlocked and even computer-controlled, as well. All achievable, but it will take me some years, I know. For me, you can't have a model railway without signals.

 

[John Webb]

Colour light signals in general were developed particularly between 1920-1930. The two-position colour light ground signals came in possibly late 1930s. York station was to have been resignalled then but WW2 stopped it and I think it was done in 1948 or 49. Pictures taken afterwards show that quite a lot of this type of signal were used then. So they can be used in 1950s-based models.
Regards,
John Webb

 

[Paxman]

QUOTE (John Webb @ 17 Apr 2007, 10:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Colour light signals in general were developed particularly between 1920-1930. The two-position colour light ground signals came in possibly late 1930s. York station was to have been resignalled then but WW2 stopped it and I think it was done in 1948 or 49. Pictures taken afterwards show that quite a lot of this type of signal were used then. So they can be used in 1950s-based models.
Regards,
John Webb

Ah - thanks for that. I think I misunderstood what DWB was asking - I thought he meant when was the Eckon range introduced....!

I love the atmosphere these GPLs create though.

 

[dwb]

>So they can be used in 1950s-based models.
Thanks for that John.

David

 

[Colombo]

David,

I have not started to signal my version of York station yet. The scale of task has put me off fo a while, I have to admit.

My version of 1950s York is having colour light signals and so a few years ago I bought an Eckon GPL. I assembled it and was very disappointed in the dimness of the lights and reasoned that I would have difficulty in seeing them from the operators position. The yellow LEDs provided to represent the white light are disappointing. My plans were put on hold whilst I considered making plaster dummies.

However, I got the signal out last week and tried it with one of the new bright white LEDs which I bought from Maplins about 2 years ago and this was a revelation (as well as a major investment at the time). You can see that the lenses are illuminated from an angle of about 45 degrees and they are quite bright. I am informed by a local supplier in Chesterfield that I can now buy white LEDs for about 60p including VAT and so this is probably the way forward. If you are going to buy some Eckon kits, it may be best to ask about the LEDs supplied and try to get them updated to bright whites and reds.

I have not yet figured out how many GPLs I shall need, where I shall put them, or how they will be powered, but that is all part of the fun, isn't it? Later, I shall have to improvise some working theatre indicators.

Colombo

 

[dwb]

Thanks for your thoughts Columbo. I think having the light guide is the key component. As you have already found, LEDs can be replaced with others.

I have been toying with the idea of investigating whether or not I can make a white "chip" (this link at Farnell gives an idea of how small they can get) LED into a signal lantern for a semaphore signal, but first I have to actually build a working semaphore signal. I have a single post kit from MSE to try out some time.

David

 

[John Webb]

David,
Bearing in mind signal lamps were oil-fired, they tend to be rather yellow in colour. If you look closely at semaphore signal spectacle glasses, the 'green' one is almost blue in colour; ie Blue filter + yellow light = Green light as seen by driver. So you may be better off using a yellow LED chip - rather cheaper than a white one as well at present.

Regards,
John Webb

 

[dwb]

>So you may be better off using a yellow LED chip - rather cheaper than a white one as well at present.
I think you have a good point there John.

David

 

[John Webb]

Bit more on the history of Position Light Ground Signals (PLGS).

According to the book "Two Centuries of Railway Signalling" published in 1998, (Geoffrey Kitchenside and Alan Williams, OPC), PLGS were then around 60 years old, ie dated from 1938. Now the East Coast Main line was resignalled with colour lights around that time between Northallerton and Darlington. Photos of this show that the PLGS were used - there is an example in the book "A pictorial history of Railway Signalling" (D Allen and C Woolstenholmes, OPC 1991).

The Northallerton resignalling was completed on the day WW2 started, and little was done during the war years.

The resignalling of York was done after WW2 by BR, and completed in the early 1950s, a few years later than my original recall in my earlier post.

Regards,
John Webb

 

[John Webb]

Additional to my last post, those modelling Southern Railway from circa 1930 to BR SR circa 1960s should be aware that they both used disc signals which were flood-lit at night and without signal lights. They also frequently mounted them alongside the main colour light signals rather than at ground level, just to make life more interesting for us modellers!

Regards,
John Webb

 

[Edwin]

QUOTE (dwb @ 17 Apr 2007, 21:56) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>>So you may be better off using a yellow LED chip - rather cheaper than a white one as well at present.
I think you have a good point there John.

David
As far as I am aware the light from a yellow LED is all of the same wavelength, whereas that from an oil lamp is a spectrum (predominantly yellow but with other colours too). Hence I don't think colour filters will work with coloured LEDs - you'll just see yellow but dimmer. Can anyone confirm or deny this from experience?

It would work to use a yellow filament bulb or even a white LED coloured yellow.