[morrycook]

Hi.
Being a new member let me introduce myself,I have been into OOgauge since the 1950s not the whole time,but I suppose constantly for the last 25yrs,I have allways used Triang or H&M transformers and shall continue to do so,
Is there anyone out there who knows a lot about H&M units,I have got hold of 2 new Variwave units can these units be fitted to duettes,clippers,etc,does anyone know how to wire them in to take the place of the wave switch.

Morry Cook.

 

[pedromorgan]

Simon Kohler used to sell them before he went to hornby. i still use the duettes but i'm afraid i cant answer your question.

I think the best thing to do with these is if they are working, leave them alone and use them as they are. there are reasons why these are banned now.

Peter

 

[Brian Considine]

Welcome to the forum Morry,

If these are "add-on" units I would think that they would connect between the 16v AC output & the track - some more details would be helpful. However, as a precaution I would be careful about using this type of control with some of the modern motors, some tend to run hot with these or feedback type controllers (especially N gauge).

I could probably help further with some diagrams or pics.

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 11 Nov 2007, 12:40) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>there are reasons why these are banned now.
Peter

Can you elaborate please Peter ? - unless they use an autotransformer I cannot see why, except for the change in flexible cable colours & shielded pins on the plugs.

 

[Gary]

There is a specialist dealer who exclusively sells refurbished Hammant & Morgan control equipment and his offerings look as new! He offers the whole range of H & M equipment, is a certified electrician qualified to do a lightning test, sells spares, and offers an exchange service if you have a non working H & M unit. Duettes are offered for about £40 without any part exchange. All equipment is fully tested and gauranteed for 12 months.

He does a catalogue for 40p which provides full details of H & M control equipment.

Contact Richard at ABC Model Railways on 0781 303 1152 or 01491 612 178 for more information. He will definitely be able to help you!

Say that big bloke from Kidderminster who sold him all those Hornby platforms very cheap recommended him!

Happy modelling
Gary

PS Something for all members to consider. Anybody who gives advice about electrical equipement who is not certified to do so is breaking the law. Only seek advice from those who are qualified and have public liability insurance. Amateurs who attempt to give advice in forums, no matter how well meaning or intended, should remember that those who are reading the advice may do something wrong and if they do then ZAP! Please think about this before the advice is offered.

PPS Please don't stop asking questions of this type about electrical equipment. Members can point folk in the direction of those who are certified to help and that is the job done.

 

[morrycook]

QUOTE (dbclass50 @ 11 Nov 2007, 12:53) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Welcome to the forum Morry,

If these are "add-on" units I would think that they would connect between the 16v AC output & the track - some more details would be helpful. However, as a precaution I would be careful about using this type of control with some of the modern motors, some tend to run hot with these or feedback type controllers (especially N gauge).

I could probably help further with some diagrams or pics.

Hi
Thanks for your answer,if you let me have your email address,then i can send your some pictures etc,or can I do that via the forum?.

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (morrycook @ 11 Nov 2007, 14:01) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi
Thanks for your answer,if you let me have your email address,then i can send your some pictures etc,or can I do that via the forum?.

I'll send you a PM with my e-mail address.

Should Gary (or anyone else for that matter) be concerned I am a qualified electrical engineer. Much of my work is safety related.

I don't really think we should get too involved in discussing the public liability issue. Advice given should be taken in good faith, otherwise we will all have to put disclaimers in our signatures.

 

[alastairq]

gosh..this is getting more like the USA as time goes on?

I've some H&M stuff...a transformer of pre-biblical age, which still functions.....several boxed and panel rheostat controllers.....I even have some dubious hand held controllers.....including one that once started to melt [in one particular spot] whilst handling double-headed [old] Athearns.....it continued to function...I just had to remember not to press my thumb too hard in that one spot on the casing......

remember that lovely burning varnish smell one sniffed, when things got too overheated, or shorted out?

 

[Gary]

For those of you who wish to learn more about Hammant & Morgan controllers, ABC Model Railways will be on stand B36 opposite the public catering area at the Warley National Model Railway Exhibition. As a fan of Hammant & Morgan controllers I will be paying Richard and Judy a visit!

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[pedromorgan]

QUOTE (dbclass50 @ 11 Nov 2007, 12:55) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Can you elaborate please Peter ? - unless they use an autotransformer I cannot see why, except for the change in flexible cable colours & shielded pins on the plugs.

They are not double insulated.

Also my understanding is that the duettes and most of the basic models are fine but the vairac based models are a big "no-no" and definatly do not pass modern safty standards.
I still think the duette is buy far the best controller i have used. its truly the land rover of controllers. its not pretty but they can take so much abuse. it always amuses me when i see DCC layouts having problems and a layout behind them using duettes that just keep on going.

Peter (BSc-for Gery's peace of mind)

 

[Brian]

While I fully agree with Gary's statements about poor electrical advise being offered on forums etc.
His statement QUOTE Anybody who gives advice about electrical equipment who is not certified to do so is breaking the law isn't correct.
Anyone - professional, amateur of just a plain nut case can offer advice! It isn't illegal nor will the police call upon them and make an arrest What is illegal is for anyone to tamper with an electrical item and then sell it on to a third party without that person being qualified or certified to undertake such repairs. But then how do you determine 'Qualified'?? Does the repairer hold a certificate for repairs? - No, no such thing exists. Do they hold technical qualifications? Hopefully yes, but you're not going to see them are you!
There isn't any clear guidance and unfortunately anyone reading a forum entry will never know how qualified the writer is in giving that information. So perhaps the underlying message should always be... Reader beware!

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 12 Nov 2007, 08:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>They are not double insulated.

Also my understanding is that the duettes and most of the basic models are fine but the vairac based models are a big "no-no" and definatly do not pass modern safty standards.
I still think the duette is buy far the best controller i have used. its truly the land rover of controllers. its not pretty but they can take so much abuse. it always amuses me when i see DCC layouts having problems and a layout behind them using duettes that just keep on going.

Peter (BSc-for Gery's peace of mind)

Peter,

Just because an item is not double insulated does not means it's unsafe ! - many current Gaugemaster units are not double insulated.

Much older equipment would not pass modern safety standards, but again, not necessarily unsafe - it really depends on a number of factors. It's many years since I've even seen a Variac unit - as soon as I have the chance I'll have a close look at one.

Agree about the Duettes (& most of the other H & M stuff) - just keeps going & going.

 

[pedromorgan]

I stand corrected!
I was under the impression that all the high voltage bit had to be double insulated these days.

Hornby had a real opportunity with the H&M name to continue the rock solid controllers that the market needed. instead they made the trainset controllers. i thought it was a real pity.
Peter

 

[7113]

QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 12 Nov 2007, 12:02) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hornby had a real opportunity with the H&M name to continue the rock solid controllers that the market needed. instead they made the trainset controllers. i thought it was a real pity.

Now that is a statement I would not disagree with. I've still got my trusty duette (I think it says empire made it's so old), and of course you were quite right when you said it was the Land Rover of transformers I trust you were referring to split screen Series 1 -3?

Regards

 

[Dinwiddy]

QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 12 Nov 2007, 08:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I still think the duette is buy far the best controller i have used. its truly the land rover of controllers. its not pretty but they can take so much abuse. it always amuses me when i see DCC layouts having problems and a layout behind them using duettes that just keep on going.

Peter (BSc-for Gery's peace of mind)

I quite agree - I use a Clipper on my loco test track and a Duette on most of my previous layouts, my present N gauge layout however uses a Hornby HM2000, no problems so far!
Regards
David Y

 

[pedromorgan]

How are you finding the HM2000?

I remember when it came out i thought it just felt a little plasticky. but then after a duette, i think that about most controllers!

Peter

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 12 Nov 2007, 12:02) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hornby had a real opportunity with the H&M name to continue the rock solid controllers that the market needed. i

I remember, at the time thinking that Hornby bought H & M out, just to remove them from the market.

Yes, an opportunity missed - makes you wonder what would have happened if they had actually developed Zero 1 ? Would we all be using a DCC system based on Hornby rather than Lenz...........................

 

[Gary]

H & M were broke as a result of competition from far eastern imports according to an accounting friend who worked there. They could not compete on price and the British are very price sensitive. They approached Hornby as it was the only way to get something for the company. Hornby were impressed by some of the new H & M developements in the pipeline and so bought the company. And as a result we have the HM series of controllers.

How many other H & M stories like this are there in the UK?

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (Gary @ 13 Nov 2007, 12:02) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>H & M were broke as a result of competition from far eastern imports according to an accounting friend who worked there. They could not compete on price and the British are very price sensitive. They approached Hornby as it was the only way to get something for the company. Hornby were impressed by some of the new H & M developements in the pipeline and so bought the company. And as a result we have the HM series of controllers.

How many other H & M stories like this are there in the UK?

Happy modelling
Gary

What far eastern imports would they be then Gary ?

It's just a great pity that Hornby did not continue the brand exactly as it was with Hornby HM***** as an alternative.

Your quote "the British are very price sensitive" answers quite a few questions reagrding price/quality in other posts.

 

[Dinwiddy]

QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 13 Nov 2007, 08:59) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>How are you finding the HM2000?

I remember when it came out i thought it just felt a little plasticky. but then after a duette, i think that about most controllers!

Peter

I find it OK, yes they do feel flimsy compared to the 'real' H & M items. To be honest I am using the Hornby one simply because the control panel is hung from the baseboard edge (front) when at home and on the scenic backdrop (back) if exhibiting and the weight factor was causing a problem!

David Y