[ebaykal]

Hi to all,

This will be my first ever hardwiring.
I have 3 locos left, Flm Br55 steamer, Flm 1043 lectric and Roco Br57 steamer, all waiting to be hardwired.

One has to start from somewhere and being hopeless in electrical bits I planned to do this online with all the help of the DCC wizards in MRF.

Participation from everybody will be highly appreciated. As we go along I am hoping that this thread will be usefull to the kinds of us who has never done a conversion before.

Please forgive my daft questions as we go along. This thread will be a pictural conversion so feel free to ask from me to take pictures of a part/section from different angles if we are in a doubt.

The first stage will be to dismantle the loco and just explore:

Oh how I love the boxes of Flm locos, just flip over and start unscrewing and once the screws ( 2 from loco body, 1 from tender ) are out just flip over without damaging any delicate pieces on the loco body.

This is the view after dismantaling the loco body.

Beautiful cab interior...have a stronge urge to weather it

...but later.

Checking the underside of the loco body I noticed a space for a loudspeaker !

a double Esu mini..

...which fits in perfectly......but

...after opening the tender all plans of using a sound decoder faded away. There is hardly any space to breath in.

. So the space found in the loco body is for the decoder. Thats certain for now.

anyway,

Taking the side panels off we come on to the chassis. Pickups are all from the 4x4 wheels and two (red & black) cables goes to the tender. Now what is below the (?) I have no clue. But we will come back to that.

The front light mechanism. The bulb gets one polarity from the chassis and the other ? Should we get rid of these and put in LEDs?

Here is the motor with the isolated backplate next to it.

..and another view.

The board in front of the motor which I probably named it wrong passes the current to the tender lights

...just like this. I guess the light has to be isolated as well , or LEDs.

This is all for now. The problem is that I did not see any capacitors/resistors of any sort that most DCC'ers say clip them off. I am worried that they might,and that is if there are any, be under the part that was (?) in the loco chassis. If so I would be terrified because that means taking off the rod assembly. Hope it doesn't come to that.

Now how should I proceed ?

Baykal

 

[Brian Considine]

Hi Baykal,

There are no caps in the loco itself - well, I've never come across any yet in a FLM. I would change the bulbs for LED's.

Regarding the motor backplate - you could use the existing one if the PCB track is cut in the right places - if you like though, use the replacement one & send the old one to me with the 150X & I will modify it & post it back so that you can use it again & see how these are done.

The tender circuit board also connects to the pickups on the centre axel - most important as these 0-8-0's need all the help they can get in the pickup department.

The small square componants on the existing backplate are the caps - you can get rid of the choke as well.

This later version you have is much improved over the earlier ones, without the tender pickups.

Hope this helps.

 

[upnick]

Hi Baykal.

The loco looks great

This is only an idea but would the decoder fit inside the roof of the loco as i have seen it done with N scale where space is tight, therefore allowing you fit sound in the body a way of routing the wires would need to be found as in the picture being careful not to damage any detail within the cab,the valence would hide the decoders edge after installation a thin coat of black paint would blend it in to the cab ........ as i say it is only an idea but thought it might work

CTelektronik do the DCX74z decoder which is very tiny.

 

[zmil]

Hi Baykal

I would replace the Lamps with LEDs , You need to find a path for 2 wires to go from the front Light back to the decoder.
The little circuit board next to the motor for the directional tail lighting wont be needed and that will give you another possible place for a small decoder like a TCS M1 - If you mill out the tender weight you could fit a sound decoder there (well maybe).

The Lamp in the Loco has a combined holder and power supply spring . That will have to be removed as it will short out against the chassis

Of coarse the non approved method would be to leave it in place (the front lamp I mean) and it will be wired across the rails as before. (I'm risking a reprimand here)

As Brian said reuse the old motor backplate , modify it by cutting the little link on the left side of the Left (-ve) motor brush , just like that German website shows , but using the new one will probably be easier

That little power pickup on the tender near the rear light can be utilized (if you wish) as an extra +ve side power pickup
You will probably find there is a centre pickup in the chassis of the tender as well for the -ve side.
These can be soldered together with the loco -ve and +ve pickup wires on the new back plate

Having said all that , Id be interested what other people would do for this loco's install.

I created my first dry soldered joint in 30 years today , very embarrassing , but that is another story

Regards Zmil

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (zmil @ 22 Nov 2008, 12:30) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The little circuit board next to the motor for the directional tail lighting wont be needed and that will give you another possible place for a small decoder like a TCS M1 - If you mill out the tender weight you could fit a sound decoder there (well maybe).

We did try that some time ago & found that there was still not enough room, even with milling out the weight, however a small (non-sound) decoder may just fit.

The front lamp can be left connected across the rails but will need to be replaced with a 24v one or LED's - quite a common arrangement, especially for locomotives that tend to run forwards all the time.

Actually, the +ve tender pick up is on the 3rd axel (just checked my one) but it would be a help with this loco to add extra pickups to the centre (non-driving) axel.

 

[zmil]

Non of my Fleischmann locos are that New . I think the most resent one I have is a diesel about 12 years old
the BR55 I have is 40 years old.

On that one I ran the front light wiring through the body where the loco's power pickups are

Regards Zmil

 

[ebaykal]

Guys I'm already sweating

Better to go step by step.

I forgot to tell you. I am planning to use Esu lokpilot V3 decoder or , have to check on that, Upnicks proposal in fitting the decoder under the cab roof and the loudspeaker in the hollow space in the loco body, a loksound decoder.

Also plan to use the isolated backplate, modifying the old one at a later stage, once I grab the feel of everything.

Are these the correct places to solder the "orange" and " grey" wires of the decoder on the backplate?

If yes, should I solder the "red" and "black" wires coming out from the loco pickups ( just as it is) to the red & black wires of the decoder ?

Which leaves us with the green , blue and white wires ,We'll worry about the lights later on.

Baykal

 

[Richard Johnson]

***Hi Erkut

I note Nicks comment which may work (but the LS3.5 is quite big! - But to be honest I really hate installing anything in the cab - it never looks right to me.

can you release the weight from within the boiler - if you can you can cut it lengthways and make enough room for the decoder. we often do this and there's not too much weight lost by doing it on an HO loco.

I can't be sure as my memory is a little foggy on it but I think we used a Micro on the last one of these we did....

If you lose the tender PCB you can also add a slim custom made enclosure in the tender for the small oval or the twin 16's.... therefore leaving space in the loco for the decoder.

Richard

 

[zmil]

Hi Baykal

You are correct about the Grey and Orange wire positions
and joining the red and black to the existing pickup wires, There is also the pickup from the tender that will need to be looped in as well (optional but the more pickup the better)

Regards Zmil

 

[ebaykal]

QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 22 Nov 2008, 13:38) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I note Nicks comment which may work (but the LS3.5 is quite big! - But to be honest I really hate installing anything in the cab - it never looks right to me.

can you release the weight from within the boiler - if you can you can cut it lengthways and make enough room for the decoder. we often do this and there's not too much weight lost by doing it on an HO loco.

I can't be sure as my memory is a little foggy on it but I think we used a Micro on the last one of these we did....

If you lose the tender PCB you can also add a slim custom made enclosure in the tender for the small oval or the twin 16's.... therefore leaving space in the loco for the decoder.

Richard

Richard hi,

Checked the weight in the loco boiler and seems there is no way of getting it out. Honestly I realy could not figure how Flm got it inside the first place.

The tender option is hopeless as well, the tinyest loudspeaker without the chamber doesn't fit even sideways, let alone a custom made enclosure.

If we decide to go for a sound loco I am afraid Nicks suggestion is the only alternative. The decoder going inside the loco body and the loudspeaker, and that is without the sound chamber, under the cab roof. The valence hides the thin loudspeaker very well but am afraid we will loose from the sound quality.

Lets think about it.

As for the LEDs:

What do you all suggest i.e, what type, color,size and do I have to use resistors for it.

Thanks

Baykal

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (ebaykal @ 22 Nov 2008, 19:42) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Checked the weight in the loco boiler and seems there is no way of getting it out. Honestly I realy could not figure how Flm got it inside the first place.

Baykal

Hi Baykal,

I can think of two possibilities ;

1) Through the smokebox door or
2) The two halves of the boiler were fitted round the weight.

Worth checking out ?

 

[zmil]

QUOTE (ebaykal @ 23 Nov 2008, 04:42) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>As for the LEDs:

What do you all suggest i.e, what type, color,size and do I have to use resistors for it.

Thanks

Baykal

Richards Prototypical white (that also come with the Flicker free) look great when used with a 1k resistor
Filing the end flat aids in the light dispersion to the Fleischmann light directors (light piping)
Also a little bit of Aluminium foil can reflect the light in the right direction
With the contact from the power source of the front light , slip some heatshrink over it and it can hold the LED in place

Place the resistor in the wiring where it will not be in the way , it does not have to be right next to the LED and it can be next to the decoder if there is no other room for it

This what I have done previously

Pre-tin the connections and use a Lap joint

the "helping hands" comes in handy for this.
I used the DCC Standards colour wires (as I only have Black heatshrink)

I cut the excess Tails off afterward , having the tail in place , draws heat away from the LED - while soldering
I used a small amount of heatshrink to insulate the connections
The little lamp is the OEM lamp from the loco , to give an idea of the size difference
I think your lamp is the smaller diameter style (about the same diameter as the LEDs)

You may have to bend the tail at 90 degrees (for the front lamp) before applying heatshrink so you can run the cables down through the chassis

With the Small lamps I customized my LEDs by adding an extension (from a old model kit sprue )

the plastic is held in place with a drop of plastic cement

resistors in line ready to be added to the decoder wiring

The main thing is to find a path for the wiring to the front light the rear light will be easier

Regards Zmil

 

[Richard Johnson]

QUOTE (ebaykal @ 23 Nov 2008, 04:42) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Richard hi,

Checked the weight in the loco boiler and seems there is no way of getting it out. Honestly I realy could not figure how Flm got it inside the first place.

The tender option is hopeless as well, the tinyest loudspeaker without the chamber doesn't fit even sideways, let alone a custom made enclosure.

If we decide to go for a sound loco I am afraid Nicks suggestion is the only alternative. The decoder going inside the loco body and the loudspeaker, and that is without the sound chamber, under the cab roof. The valence hides the thin loudspeaker very well but am afraid we will loose from the sound quality.

Lets think about it.

As for the LEDs:

What do you all suggest i.e, what type, color,size and do I have to use resistors for it.

Thanks

Baykal

***Hi

You shouldn't give up so easily - you have excellent skills and abilities!!

Zmils LED wiring looks good. Do it that way.

Re the install. There must be a way with the weight......

As Brian said, via smokebox or perhaps separation of boiler halves. It was put in so must come out!

can you get the smokebox front off? Again it was probably added to the boiler by FLM so should also be removeable somehow!

I wonder if there is a screw hidden under detail or a cap or on one dome and it comes out via the opening you already have? It is sometimes done that way.

If not please consider the following:

(1) using rotary cuttin bits or drills remove some of the weight. A real pain to do but doable

(2) MAKE an enclosure.

Use thin card (1/2 to 1mm is OK) which is easy to cut and glue. When you are sure the enclosure will fit then paint it all over inside and out with epoxy glue and let dry 24 hours. This will soak into it and make it a hard and solid enclosure, much harder than plastic!

When it is dry, gently sand the face where the speakers go and secure to the enclsure with a thn bead of silicone glue. Make sure the enclosure is perfectly sealed around the speaker and where the wires come out too.

You could do this in the cab roof OR in the area under the boiler.

ie, use a loksound 3 or 3.5 in the firebox and speaker in the cab roof (yuk)

use a loksound micro hidden WITH the speakers in the area under the firebox.

what is the exact size of the hole under the firebox ? I am guessing you could possibly even use 2 of the small oval speaker like are supplied with the Micro, wired in parallel (making 50 ohms) PLUS the loksound Micro in the space under the firebox or the added space you grind out of the weight

I would mount back to back in the same box using some of the length or perhaps alongside each other in a box taking 50% of the space width and use the rest for the micro... But its impossible to be sure without the loco in front of me!

Richard

 

[ebaykal]

Zmil, thanks for the LED tutorial will come in very handy along with Richards.

The situ with the weights bothered me and I stripped everything off even the cab to see if I was missing something.

Here is the front view and from the firebox area

Notice the bulge in front, you can see it thru the loco front light gap. Thats whats preventing it to go either way.

Funny thing is there is no boiler halves! Its a one unit ! The Roco 44 had two halves and it was easy.

My guess is they inserted this cylindrical weight thru the front of the loco body and after insertion closed the front cover of the boiler with some kind of moulding practice. The only way to get it out is to cut that section which terrifies me.

The smokebox front now looks as if it is one piece with the boiler they have done a good joob, have to give credit to them.

As for the decoders:

Both loksound and lokpilot fit into tho firebox area and here is how the ( without the sound chamber ) loudspeaker looks under the cab roof

I'll take my time on this one and think.

thanks for all the contributions. Still a long way to go.

Baykal

 

[john woodall]

Of course Fleischmann or Roco will announce a sound equiped class 55 in February (only 2 months until the new items start to be announced!)

A little bit of black paint and the speaker in the cab roof will not be very noticable.

Great work so far Baykal

 

[upnick]

Hi ebaykal,

You are exploring all the options there the speaker in the cab looks good and Zmil's lighting is great he has given me ideas how to extend the led's if needed in the future

 

[ebaykal]

QUOTE (john woodall @ 23 Nov 2008, 10:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Of course Fleischmann or Roco will announce a sound equiped class 55 in February (only 2 months until the new items start to be announced!)

John, I would't count on that, being the crisis as it is I have my doubts. Look what happened to the Roco Br24. It was supposed to be released Nov.2007, now they are quoting end of 2009.

Baykal

 

[Richard Johnson]

*** Hi

It looks like the slit point may be the whole smokebox added to the boiler tube perhaps? I agree its a bit intimidating to split again but there is a clean seam at that point so could be done if you feel brave...!

The more I look at that space in the firebox the more I am convinced that you could fit the loksound Micro + speakers there.... or the Micro into the cab roof and speakers into the firebox.

The micro is about the same length as the lokpilot but half the width and perhaps slightly thinner.... Or if you can carve out a lump of the weight the Micro may fit entirely in the "removed weight" area and then you have free use of the firebox for speakers!

Richard

 

[ebaykal]

Damn !

I could'nt resist the urge. Told you all I hate electrical bits.

painted the wooden platforms of the cab and the wooden coal holders;

....and filed the protruding plate numbers to cab side level because etched TCDD plates will be mounted.

Now back to buisness;

Mounted the isolated backplate and soldered two wires. ( Had to paint one orange cause I have only grey and black at hand)

Question: Can I use the empty bulb chasis to collect the (-) .i.e, can I solder a wire to it and another to collect the (+) from the wheel pickup as shown in the picture , than accuplate them with the loco wheel pickups?

Richard, after scratching my head for the last couple of hours I have decided to go along as below:

There is really no way to get that weight out. So weight stays in ( besides by decreasing the weight we might encounter pickup problems cause nearly all the pickups are from the loco wheels)

Loksound decoder goes inside the firebox and plain ( no chamber) loudspeaker below the cab roof.

I know you do not like the idea but I promise I'll make the cab interior to your liking and no one will notice the loudspeaker.

So far so good.

Baykal

 

[zmil]

Hi Baykal

You can connect the Chassis -ve pickup from the Backplate - no need to wire directly to it , as it connected through the chassis and by the motor screw - see below

For the +ve pickup , solder the wire on the pickup and to one of the spots on the backplate -I have marked as +ve Red wire
the +ve pickup wire from the Loco can also be soldered onto one of those spots

The Negative -ve pickup wire from the loco can be soldered to -ve spot and that will tie the power pickups from the Loco to the power pickups from the tender . Keep the wires as short as possible.

Now you will only need to join the Red and Black wires from the decoder to the +ve and -ve pickups in the loco

I loved your detailing of the parts in the last post

Regards Zmil