Havaphew More

283 Views 7 Replies 5 Participants Last post by Locochris1805, 16 h ago

mj9

Discussion Starter · 14 d ago

Hello!

Wondering if the much wiser among you might care to point out any gotchas in my design, or anything that doesn't seem "right"?

It's based on Don Culp's Havaphew Central (hence the title of this post,) a layout that I instantly fell in love with, even more so once I saw the accompanying photos of the completed layout and how he'd gone "big" in a small space.

I don't think I will be going "big" to the extent he has (with the large town buildings,) but I am toying with a north-south divide along a road in which the north side is pretty rural/countryside and the south a little more built-up, since I plan on having a (relatively) large passenger station there, as well as the turn table.

Obviously I've tinkered with Don's design quite a bit, and mine is larger, and also I will be modelling British era 5 using Peco code 55 throughout (N), and it's DCC. The few buildings/stations/road are just there to give me some idea at the moment, especially regarding clearances and what will fit; nothing is absolutely set in stone yet.

Anyway, without further ado, here it is:

The things I wonder about are:

1. In the sense of avoiding S curves, will the wye at top left cause issues for the incoming branch? (It's there to save space.)
2. Is the curved point at bottom left OK there? (It's there to save space.)
3. Are back-to-back double slips problematic? (You got it: there to save space!)
4. The sidings just beneath the larger station on the right: There'll be some kind of small industry there, but are those crossover points in the right direction? They're intended for a loco to uncouple and reverse out on the adjacent line, but since we're "driving on the left", I'm not sure if it means that those points really should both be left-handed instead. (I've chosen their current orientation based solely on the length of the lines.)
5. I've purposely tried to make it impossible to go from the outer loop into the inner loop without a train reversing, to prevent trains colliding head on. Have I done that "right"?
6. The four "legs" (lines) leading off at the four corners are intended for any future expansion, because I can already see the need for a fiddle yard or at least another destination for trains. But I don't want to get ahead of myself just yet.
7. I did wonder about the separation between the lines on the left curve, but that's been answered in another post, and I'm reasonably confident that it's sufficient.

I guess you guys may wonder about many other things too! But please be gentle, it's taken me nearly a year of tinkering to get the design to this stage.

Thank you!

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linka

· #2 · 10 d ago

mj9 said:
Hello!

Wondering if the much wiser among you might care to point out any gotchas in my design, or anything that doesn't seem "right"?

It's based on Don Culp's Havaphew Central (hence the title of this post,) a layout that I instantly fell in love with, even more so once I saw the accompanying photos of the completed layout and how he'd gone "big" in a small space.

I don't think I will be going "big" to the extent he has (with the large town buildings,) but I am toying with a north-south divide along a road in which the north side is pretty rural/countryside and the south a little more built-up, since I plan on having a (relatively) large passenger station there, as well as the turn table.

Obviously I've tinkered with Don's design quite a bit, and mine is larger, and also I will be modelling British era 5 using Peco code 55 throughout (N), and it's DCC. The few buildings/stations/road are just there to give me some idea at the moment, especially regarding clearances and what will fit; nothing is absolutely set in stone yet.

Anyway, without further ado, here it is:

View attachment 24553

The things I wonder about are:

1. In the sense of avoiding S curves, will the wye at top left cause issues for the incoming branch? (It's there to save space.)
2. Is the curved point at bottom left OK there? (It's there to save space.)
3. Are back-to-back double slips problematic? (You got it: there to save space!)
4. The sidings just beneath the larger station on the right: There'll be some kind of small industry there, but are those crossover points in the right direction? They're intended for a loco to uncouple and reverse out on the adjacent line, but since we're "driving on the left", I'm not sure if it means that those points really should both be left-handed instead. (I've chosen their current orientation based solely on the length of the lines.)
5. I've purposely tried to make it impossible to go from the outer loop into the inner loop without a train reversing, to prevent trains colliding head on. Have I done that "right"?
6. The four "legs" (lines) leading off at the four corners are intended for any future expansion, because I can already see the need for a fiddle yard or at least another destination for trains. But I don't want to get ahead of myself just yet.
7. I did wonder about the separation between the lines on the left curve, but that's been answered in another post, and I'm reasonably confident that it's sufficient.

I guess you guys may wonder about many other things too! But please be gentle, it's taken me nearly a year of tinkering to get the design to this stage.

Thank you!

2 stations or 1 plus a sidings / refueling
options for track ends
turning point and storage
curves
a road that goes somewhere so shops / houses
got a number of options I like it
IF you then had a trade in and out station and a trade in and out era / geographical set of locos, you could have two for one, and loads of general generic kit
i llike it

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mj9

Discussion Starter · #3 · 10 d ago

linka said:
i llike it

I can see you are a person with excellent taste!

Thank you very much!

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linka

· #4 · 9 d ago

I would say, get the back scene sorted asap, because it is always a pain to add after
if the slips are back to back if you can get the longer ones in there should be less issues, the tighter curves will by definition be more problematic but frankly in my opinion 2 short slips should be perfectly fine, if they can be used elsewhere buy them in fit and run a train over them if they work, excellent if not move one elsewhere, shorter slips will save space a point you have mentioned several times so I expect tyou want shorter ones.
I do not expect the track layout to give you too much scope for rising and falling terrain, but make the best of your edges and the back scenery, that said flat landscape which often goes criticism is fine and occurs all the time.
IF someone criticises any as;etc, 1. Do not let another persons personal opnion override your own selection, UNlESS they offer a technical issue Which can be substantiated.
The rule your layout your rules always applies,plus you have chosen a specific era (5O and I personally use and like peco I am 00 never modeled in n, but fully appreciate it has a lot going for it.
IF money is going to be tight, keep as much cash pushed towards rolling stock track and operating system, then look at how to make your own items that will make savings on cash, I personally have recently added options on insulation foam platforms much cheaper than bought or kit ones - but dustier, I have made steps and a cattle grid, oh I need to add the cattlegrid i’ll add that its very easier and much cheaper than buying, trees and shrubs etc savings can be made from the garden,
Era 5 late crest and early 60s is a favourite for me and I use and update detail for that era.
Are you going for a clean new well cared look, or a dirtier weathered affair, I think that time period the vehicles and railway stock was well cared for, will look forward to seeing it come to pass.
There are knowledgeable people here, but if I can help on any scenic issues with options - and not ones you are obliged to follow only to consider feel free to ask. If I can help happy to do so.…..just off to add cattlegrid build.

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kristopher1805

· #5 · 9 d ago

When I first moved overseas back in 2010 I built an OO layout much like this and my experience was
1. Use long streamline points as they are less trouble.
2. The inside station was a bit irritating as you need to do shunting/reversing , you might like this but me - not so much so when I built the big railway for real I had no such station but had them on the main lines.
3. I added a loop at either end so the outside line had more trains ready to run.
4. The main line platforms can have loops, you save space by having a central island platform and a loop either side and this allows freight trains to stack up.
5. Reverse and S type curves can be a nuisance operationally so OK as long as they have limited angles, use of setrack not great on such curves especially with bigger locos
6. On the real railway facing points are really not encouraged especially on fast lines but you have to have them sometimes but speed limited a good station to look at is on 'Signal Box Diagrams' Hebden Bridge or Mytholmroyd this is on the LYR main line (known as the Manchester and Normanton Railway)
7. For myself I would prefer the main station site to be a freight yard, lots of shunting options etc.

At the end of this it is your railway and you must do it the way you want and good luck be nice to see what you build in the end.

Regards
Chris

ps my terminal station turned into a goods yard is really not used but is there as it has the space, a lot of early terminal stations became parcel type facilities as the through links connected up the wider system

so here is Adolphus Square Towcaster based on Bradford Adolphus Road which was much bigger of course but was a main passenger station for only a few years

http://imgur.com/6jLK8FI

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mj9

Discussion Starter · #6 · 9 d ago

linka said:
There are knowledgeable people here, but if I can help on any scenic issues with options - and not ones you are obliged to follow only to consider feel free to ask. If I can help happy to do so.…..just off to add cattlegrid build.

Some very good advice, and very kind of you, thank you! Hope you end up with a fine cattlegrid! You'll have to post some pictures.

You're right about having inclines. I have put in a couple to the right, but pretty small ones, maybe rising a couple of cm at the most (at just under 3%), to hint at the rising of a hill beyond. That, together with my 4cm XPS board should, I hope, give me the ability to to rise up and dig down enough for the bridge shown at the very top-right. (I didn't show it, but similar to the original layout, there'll be a bit of river diagonally cutting across that corner. Oh, and probably a pond somewhere.)

kristopher1805 said:
...
2. The inside station was a bit irritating as you need to do shunting/reversing , you might like this but me - not so much so when I built the big railway for real I had no such station but had them on the main lines.
...
7. For myself I would prefer the main station site to be a freight yard, lots of shunting options etc.

Again, super helpful, thank you! I have considered replacing the large station with a freight yard (but still leaning towards a station), but from your comments, I am curious (and very likely naive): If you enjoy the shunting of wagons, why not the shunting or reversing of coaches? Aren't they just longer stock?

And Adolphus Square looks fantastic! Dreaming of the day when my layout will even remotely begin to approach something like that!

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Norman Byrne

· #7 · 9 d ago

Hi,
As has been said and comes across loud and clear hopefully, at the end of the day it’s your layout and “you” should go with what you like / are happy with ultimately.
Just one suggestion by way of food for thought perhaps, being to see if you could tweak the turntable track arrangement, to maybe move the indicative road curve / meander up slightly, to somehow achieve another access route / track to the turntable. As if the current single line off the mainline were to be blocked; everything would be “trapped” - very minor point of course.
Good luck on progressing things, and look forward to further posts.
Happy Modelling, Cheers for now Norm

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Locochris1805

· #8 · 16 h ago

In terms of terminal stations arriving by a forward facing loco they might be released by hitching another on the end but usual practice was to release the loco to service (steamers) and turn it around and this would be often on the right side as you approach and then servikced the loco would draw its train from the right side of the station whilst the station pilot moves the stock to the right whilst the train loco gets serviced, all difficult to do on a limited layout.

As to shunting coaches especially on set track the sharp angles make this a bit fraught, if anything is not quite right trackwise then a lot or re-railing could be needed, longer the coach bigger the issue.

Gradients, I did a very great deal of experimentation back along and came up with 1 in 33 and the sharpest viable gradient, forget about Hornby spacers that come out at about 1 in 19, so gradients that do not get over 80mm are poor so at 1 in 33, 80 mm is the lowest height used for OO bridges (is the Hornby standard bridge height) so you need 2.6 metres length of ramp.

The top part of Adolphus Square station is a German kit by Faller 120199 cost £125 from Guagemaster, I have never built it all as I thought is was a bit too Germanic.

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