[Andrew Rolland]

Link

In summary

Lots of new Dublo diecast Pacifics at silly prices or Railroad Diesels (Class 47 and 20) and a Bluetooth capable DCC system

Highlights

Deltic DP1, LMS 8F, Fowler Tank, B17 with A4 nose (which you could see on Sam's trains teaser still) Class 101 in Strathclyde orange.

From a personal point of view

LNER A4 Mallard, wanted an Era 3 Mallard for a while in upgraded form.
LMS 8F, again a much wanted upgrade from my 1988 model
Hornby Year wagon, got everyone since 1992
LNER Teak coaches announced - might get enough for a rake now

No missing Mk4 Coach M in BR Swallow livery
No LMS Crimson Coaches
No Pullman Coaches
More Beatles vans - I have to ask why?

 

[34C]

Not much doubt about what sells in OO from Hornby's perspective. I'll be in for a metal bodied double chimney A4 in BR late crest. Since they now are starting on A1 and A3 in their metal bodied H-D range, there will also be a late condition d/c A3 with a GNR pattern tender coming my way some day, hopefully...

 

[butler-henderson]

Bogie bolster same type as the Mainline/Bachmann one (albeit 40+ years newer), Salmon in differing forms already done by Flangeway (but may have differences) and TTA already done by Bachmann. Originality 0 Copying 3

 

[dwb]

I haven't looked yet. I am finding it hard to get excited about any new product announcement given

• My experience a couple of years ago when Hornby's rejigging of their dealer network caused a lot of my pre-orders to be cancelled. I never did get any of those models in the end.
• An awful lot of January 2022 stuff is nowhere near ready - Think - LNER Coronation Coach set.

An 8F would be nice but has anyone seen the new 5 announced last year?

David

 

[34C]

...An awful lot of January 2022 stuff is nowhere near ready - Think - LNER Coronation Coach set.

An 8F would be nice but has anyone seen the new 5 announced last year?

My thinking is that we'll be doing well if we see previously announced items like the Coronation coaches, Black 5 and BR 2MT 2-6-0 by end of this year. The new announcements to follow...

There's a BR late crest 8F in the 2023 list, but it is not labelled as a new tooling, and the photograph is of the circa 2002 loco drive model, with its special spinning gear shaft end on view where there should be airspace under the boiler. (The loco body is good, so if Hornby gave it a better laid out mechanism and the correct latest version of the Stanier tender which they have CAD for, there's potential for an upgrade. Maybe...

 

[Graham Plowman]

Interesting to see the relevance [not] of the 'Wishlist Poll' to this - like no matches whatsoever. Looks like Hornby rely on other more reliable market research!

There are some interesting items here though.

• Not sure why they have gone down the DP1 path when this has already been done. Are people really asking for this ? Presumably, people see it in the NRM ?
• Is there really a demand for Beatles wagons ? Most kids these days have never heard of the Beatles! I suppose we did have Weetabix and Kitkat vans in the 70's...
• Interesting that the early HST liveries are seeing a resurgence. Given that most people model 40 years ago from the current time, this makes sense
• Also interesting the number of LNER pacifics. I can't say I have heard people asking for them
• The B17 looks like a completely new model
• The bogie bolsters are an interesting supplement to the Dapol Macaw H that Hornby produced. These were done by Bachmann, not Dapol, so these are probably a brand new moulding ?
• Not sure about the Salmon - another manufacturer has done these. Are they really being asked for ?
• Did Dunster actually have an engine shed ?
• Looks like the TTA is being upgraded - long overdue as the current model probably dates from the 80's
• The LMS 8F is very welcome - while very good at the time, it has been due an upgrade for some time. Lovely loco.
• Not sure while the VTG 100T TEA is being re-introduced - it badly needs upgrading
• The Procor Palvan is an ex-Lima model. I have some the 'UKF Fertilisers' labelled versions of this - this model looks like later labelling ? I guess if I wait, they will come out!
• Likewise, the PGAs are ex-Lima - I remember ARC well at Haywards Heath as they had (and still do) have a depot at Ardingly

An interesting mix this year.

 

[dwb]

Just watched the Hornby Magazine youtube video on the new introductions. They said the 8F was coming back but I don't think they said it was a new tool but at the price mentioned it ought to be ...

The new control system with using Bluetooth direct from phone to loco chip sounds interesting although my own experience with Bluetooth connected kit is mixed. Some work flawlessly like phone to car but others are downright awful like the Bluetooth connected coffee machine which mostly didn't connect at all.

On reflection maybe a 1938 condition Mallard ...

David

 

[kiwionrails]

...
The new control system with using Bluetooth direct from phone to loco chip sounds interesting although my own experience with Bluetooth connected kit is mixed. Some work flawlessly like phone to car but others are downright awful like the Bluetooth connected coffee machine which mostly didn't connect at all.
,,,

Whilst it definitely looks like it could be interesting I can immediately note a couple of things:

• Positives:
  • Only relies on track for power, and not for control - maybe really good, as could mean fitting a small battery to avoid needing to power through complex pointwork.
  • The blutooth decoders appear to be backwards-compatible with DCC, so you can still run them using existing controllers if wanted (useful during a transition or if visiting other layouts)
• Open Questions:
  • The big one to me: Wider support? - I know I would be uncomfortable adopting something which is only produced and supported by a single manufacturer.... For the wider support to happen, I would expect it would need to be an open standard.
  • I saw something written that control is a 'hub/spoke' arrangement from each phone/controller, and that there is no communication between different controllers on a layout. - Maybe an issue if you're wanting multiple operators/'cabs'.
  • Is there any impact on blutooth signal from metal-bodied rolling stock - kit built or the modern traunch of diecast.
  • I understand why it is blutooth rather than a mesh-type network (such as Z-Wave and Zigbee as used in the smart-home world), but it is a good way maybe of working around some of the above range issues.
  • Blutooth range - from my own experience with blutooth headphones, this can range from 10m+ down to ~2m if conditions are bad (shielding or interference).
  • Unless I'm mis-reading, I don't think that the HM7000 system can control conventional DCC directly.

The above sounds very negative, but it definitely looks like it could be an interesting system with a lot of the issues with DCC worked-around.

Regards,

Cameron.

 

[34C]

The LMS 8F is very welcome - while very good at the time, it has been due an upgrade for some time...

The photograph on Hornby's site is very definitely of the existing model first seen circa 2002, no mention of 'new tooling'. Disappointing in that if this proves to be representative of this release, all the existing deficiencies will be present, it's a rather dated model now, well behind their later 2-8-0 introductions, 28xx and Thompson O1. (When I think of the fuss over the Oxford Radial tank having some mechanism mounting on view under the boiler: the 8F has twice as much, delicately garnished with a large spinning gear shaft end on view, to make sure you don't miss it!)

Also interesting the number of LNER pacifics. I can't say I have heard people asking for them...

Of course not, Hornby have effectively taken this 'out of view', by direct sales to collectors. I have yet to see a single report of anyone running the metal bodied H-D packaged models. (Anyone knowing different, do chip in! ) Well, now that there are d/c late crest A4's announced, and they have started on A3's, this barbarian will buy 'the precious' and see how they run.

It's clearly working for them, as the range is expanding, the successor to the Doncaster pacifics in the form of the EE type 5 demonstrator joins the club. (Much as a I like this machine, not buying, the Bachmann/NRM production is fine. And I have a caveat if Hornby really push the weight up with the all metal body, their version of the centre motor drive is not robust enough in the bogie department to take much more weight than found in the plastic bodied releases.) If it continues to do the business for Hornby I expect the Princess in conventional and turbo form and DoG, will be added in time.

The B17 looks like a completely new model...

And as people have already spotted, with this model released Hornby will be able to offer a 'complete' LNER streamliner set: A4, B17, P2, W1, 'The Bugatti Foursome'? ; sold as above. Perhaps with the matching Coronation set? (even though only really applicable to the A4, but it will look good with any...).

 

[34C]

...They said the 8F was coming back but I don't think they said it was a new tool but at the price mentioned it ought to be ...

As my post #9, the picture is definitely of the 8F as launched circa 2002, and the absence of 'new tooling' suggests that 'what you see is what you get'....

Maybe some lobbying required? Because Hornby could readily 'fix it' with a new mechanism for a fully concealed drive with more weight using the layout seen in the Thompson O1, and a new Stanier tender using the CAD from the Black 5. The loco body, wheelsets and outside rods are all fine.

 

[dwb]

The above sounds very negative, but it definitely looks like it could be an interesting system with a lot of the issues with DCC worked-around.

From what the Hornby Mag video said, this system seems to be very well thought out.
The decoders have a socket on them for attaching back up power - 9s worth I think. Note that's a socket and not some teeny weeny solder pads and the back up power pack is keenly priced. So that should address dead spots on the track. An additional advantage is that this is powering the decoder so the Bluetooth is still alive and you can control the loco.

There's a 'Legacy' (cheeky name ) dongle which will connect the Bluetooth system into an existing system. The publicity material shows a Z21 as one potential target. I just had a look at the product page -
R7326 HM7040 - Legacy Dongle for existing DCC Controllers which tells very little but I did follow the link to https://d63oxfkn1m8sf.cloudfront.ne..._HM7000_Incompatible_Device_List_9-1-2023.pdf and noticed that my two year old Samsung phone is there alongside a lot of other Android devices. That's going to be a big blocker - not everyone has an Apple device.

Metal bodies - The new HD models have the socket in the tender and that's plastic? For that reason? Doubt it but ...

I think the emphasis from Hornby is that this is a cheap way to get into digital control. My guess is that Bluetooth is built in to just about every chip you might consider using for a decoder so it's effectively free. They've designed the power provision so that you can reuse an old Hornby wall wart. So your entry cost could be as low as a decoder and power adapter lead, just add a compatible phone and you are in business. No command centre costing hundreds of pounds.

For people starting out, or who only have a few locos it's a nice low cost entry point, and as the decoders can accept DCC signals via the rails, your investment is protected should you visit an NMRA DCC layout at a friends or a club or even upgrade yourself to a full system later.

But it's nowhere near a full system such as those from ESU, Roco and others. Just look at all the accessory decoders and detectors to get an idea of what's not there. It's pure loco control at the moment.

There is a full article on Key Model World but it's behind there paywall and Hornby Mag subscribers no longer get free access. Maybe it will be in the Feb edition but mine's not arrived yet.

David

 

[Greyvoices]

Two items catch my eye, the Salmon wagons (I've loaded many of these in my time) and the streamlined B17/5.

Delivery is two years away barring anymore global interference to manufacture/shipping/finance/etc. I would pre-order but I'd like to see what BR livery is chosen before I decide to purchase. How often have I dived straight in to buy a newly introduced loco but then, very shortly after being tempted to buy it again when my preferred livery is produced. I imagine that a B17/5 would look superb hauling a rake of Gresley 52'6" coaches (courtesy of the re-introduced Ian Kirk kits).

Best regards ........ Greyvoices (alias John)

 

[Graham Plowman]

From what the Hornby Mag video said, this system [HM7000] seems to be very well thought out...

This sounds like some ideas that I discussed with Simon a few years ago, although I'm not sure how well Blue Tooth will serve:

• What is its range ?
• How many devices can it handle concurrently ?
• Will it work in an exhibition hall with multiple layouts all using the same system (ie can layouts be isolated on separate 'networks') as well as people's mobile phones polling for connections (with their out-of-range cars in the carpark) ?

 

[34C]

This sounds like some ideas that I discussed with Simon a few years ago, although I'm not sure how well Blue Tooth will serve:

• What is its range ?
• How many devices can it handle concurrently ?
• Will it work in an exhibition hall with multiple layouts all using the same system (ie can layouts be isolated on separate 'networks') as well as people's mobile phones polling for connections (with their out-of-range cars in the carpark) ?

If the system engineering is done right there should be no range or concurrent device handling problems, as Bluetooth 'mesh' is proven for large scale applications such as assembly factories in buildings much the same size as exhibition halls. Thus there should be no problem for a private layout, and all but the largest should work from a single transmitter.

The exhibition hall question is a good one! Not a clue. Might be fun to ask Hornby...

 

[kiwionrails]

...
The exhibition hall question is a good one! Not a clue. Might be fun to ask Hornby...

I would expect that the blutooth standard itself is probably failry resilient, as it is able to 'survive' fairly onerous conditions such as a packed commuter train and everyone with their wireless headphones in!

 

[Greyvoices]

Delivery is two years away barring anymore global interference to manufacture/shipping/finance/etc.

Best regards ........ Greyvoices (alias John)

What bad form to quote oneself .............. but ........... I got to thinking. I am sure that we have discussed "pre-ordering" many times before but this seems so blatant on the part of Hornby. The announcement is for 2023 and one can expect some slippage into 2024 but the B17/5 is obviously aimed at 2025 delivery. The invitation to pre-order is somewhat premature.
This new year announcement cycle has got out of hand. I am reminded of a book that was a staple of Sociology courses in the mid-sixties, "The Acquisitive Society", written around 1920 by R.H.Tawney but reaching cult status as post war consumerism gripped the first world. Why am I rambling on about this? I look back at the days of chicken wire and papier mache scenery and the smell of ozone producing Triang mechanisms with a degree of fondness; there were few models to buy and the trickle of new items had to be saved up for. The contrast with the modern railway modelling scene is all to apparent. A year ago I paid in full for a yet to be produced Brush Type 2 and I could be getting delivery sometime in 2024. I think back to the first Brush Type 2 model I owned in the early sixties ................. it was announced in time for Santa to get it to me for Christmas.

I should stop this chuntering. Just rehashing what we've discussed so many times on MRF. Perhaps my thoughts are coloured by knowing so many who have sought refuge in my town from conflict in Ukraine and have lost their homes through bombing. Then there is the massive increase of families relying on the local foodbank or the fact that the waiting list for social housing has risen in my area from under 500 to 2,500 in the past 3 years. In comparison my family is so privileged. Can you imagine that I was even considering buying the Hornby-Dublo magnificent six !!!!!

This is hardly a suitable post for MRF ............... I apologise.

Best regards .................. Greyvoices (alias John)

 

[34C]

...Perhaps my thoughts are coloured by knowing so many who have sought refuge in my town from conflict in Ukraine and have lost their homes through bombing...

I feel this post is entirely suitable for airing here. Those of us so privileged musn't forget it.

Mind, the attractions of our society are enticing, and not only the consumerist aspect. We have a 'multinational' selection of refugee, displaced and asylum seeking people in our town; and one 13 y.o. boy made his mother turn pale on Wednesday when he told her 'No way do I go back to Ukraine, this is much better: I get top grade A levels and go to Cambridge University".

 

[Greyvoices]

Thank you 34C. I try not to inflict my views regarding the 1:1 world on MRF but ................ .

I have just been reading up about the HM7000 system on the Hornby website and it does seem to be a very useful innovation. From my understanding it will be possible to try it out merely by purchasing one loco decoder and downloading the HM7000 app onto a smart phone. I imagine that many of us will give it a go.

I liked the blue tooth dongle that allows an existing DCC command centre to be controlled from a smartphone. For those of us who have not so far tried to do it this looks like an easy way in. Not so sure that HM7000 will seamlessly work through an ESU Ecos nor be able to control all DCC loco decoders as claimed by Hornby.

Many years ago I chose the Ecos command centre as it seemed to tick all the boxes for me; the sniffer port compatibility, graphic display and very intuitive decoder programming. The step up from the ZTC was very welcome but initially I hooked up the ZTC through the Ecos sniffer port because I had bought a very handy ZTC hand controller that I liked. Eventually I upgraded the connectivity of the Ecos so that I could add the Digitrax hand controller and this is where I am now (though I have to admit that I've not run a train for quite some while). The question is do I need to graft on yet another level of control? Need ......... no.
Intrigued to try it out ................. yes ............. but I will wait to hear how others get on with it before I take the plunge.

My first controller that came with my trainset in 1955 was a brick sized Bakelite battery case with a lever on top that controlled speed and direction ............. we've come a long way since then.

Best regards ................. Greyvoices (alias John)

 

[butler-henderson]

Provided it supports the dcc protocols then it should operate any decoder which is to those dcc standards

 

[Graham Plowman]

To be honest, it looks remarkably like a system design for which I shared a diagram with Simon a couple of years ago!

The purpose of the Hornby dongle is to enable existing conventional DCC locos to be controlled from the phone app. We will have to wait and see how far that goes because theoretically, you should be able to control DCC accessories through this as well - maybe a later phone app update. The dongle itself will most likely be acting as another throttle in the same way the the computer interface is in the Expressnet world.