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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HI everyone.

Quick question about hornby catalogue numbers. Im looking to get a rake of LNER coaches for a new layout - ive noticed a lot of hornby products whereby the same item has a A B or C at the end of the catalogue number - whats the actual difference in the item? I can only think running number? Any suggestions?

i.e. this page Modelfair.com

has both R4174 and R4174A - whats the difference?

Thanks!

Marc
 

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usually it denotes a locomotive or passenger car that has more that one number.

Charles Emerson
Queensland
Australia

QUOTE (birkettm @ 29 Oct 2008, 20:08) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>HI everyone.

Quick question about hornby catalogue numbers. Im looking to get a rake of LNER coaches for a new layout - ive noticed a lot of hornby products whereby the same item has a A B or C at the end of the catalogue number - whats the actual difference in the item? I can only think running number? Any suggestions?

i.e. this page Modelfair.com

has both R4174 and R4174A - whats the difference?

Thanks!

Marc
 

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Yes, you are right, nowadays it is to distinguish between models with different running numbers or livery variants of a given model.

They were first applied in 1962 by the current Hornby company when it was called Rovex Scale Models and traded as Triang Railways. since then they have been used to indicate other types of variations, e.g. Smoke Units, and also applied to lieside accessories.

Keith.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So if im wanting a rake of LNER teaks then i should be looking at getting them all postfixed A or B or not at all?
 

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If you intend to have two coaches that are otherwise identical, buying ones with a different letter to each other will give you differently numbered coaches. Sometimes Hornby bring out a coach with different running numbers immediately available, on other coaches they may produce a different running number each year.

Regards,
John Webb
 

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I think clarification is needed as some statements above could cause confusion.

The A/B/C/D after a catalogue number does indicate a different running number for rolling stock. Different liveries for coaches however would have a different catlogue number. With locos it has been the practice up to now to have a different catalogue number for each running number. An X prefix after a catalogue number indicates DCC fitted.

Hope that helps.

Dave
 

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QUOTE (DRK @ 29 Oct 2008, 17:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>An X prefix after a catalogue number.....

Hope that helps.

Dave

Sorry to be pedantic, but you cannot have a "prefix after", as prefixes always go in front of the words or letters to which you are attaching them. I think you meant to say "suffix to" as suffixes always go after the words or letters or in this case numbers to which they are being attached.

Also I'm not aware of their being a word postfix, the word is suffix.

Current usage of suffixes seems to refer to running numbers, but suffixes have been used since 1962 for different liveried versions. For instance R355 was a freelance 0-4-0 Urie inspired industrial tank loco which first apeared in a blue livery and was named Nellie. That was later given a B suffix to become R355B when Triang also made a yellow version R355Y named Connie, and a red version R355R named Polly. There was also an unnamed black liveried BR version with the catalogue number R359. So there is a 46 year old precedent for suffixes or different R numbers being used to distinguish between different liveries for a model of the same loco.

In case you're wondering why I'm mentioning Triang, that was the name under which the current Hornby company used to market their model railway system when they were part of the Triang/Lines Bros empire. Lines Bros bought Meccano in the 1960s and with it the Hornby trade name, renaming their system Triang-Hornby in 1964. The Triang part of the name was dropped when Lines Bros went broke in 1971 and the Triang name could no longer be used as that was sold off separately to the model railway part of the business.

Keith.
 

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QUOTE Also I'm not aware of their being a word postfix

Chambers does not recognise "postfix" but Wikipedia does. It's another name for "Reverse Polish Notation" which will be familiar to any one who owned one of Clive Sinclair's earlier scientific calculators. link

David
 

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QUOTE (dwb @ 30 Oct 2008, 18:30) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Chambers does not recognise "postfix" but Wikipedia does.
It's also in Roget's Thesaurus alongside prefix, affix, suffix and infix, so will have been around at the birth of railways. Phew! glad I found a railway connexion (sic) somewhere.
mal
 

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QUOTE (GoingUnderground @ 30 Oct 2008, 16:07) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Sorry to be pedantic, but you cannot have a "prefix after", as prefixes always go in front of the words or letters to which you are attaching them. I think you meant to say "suffix to" as suffixes always go after the words or letters or in this case numbers to which they are being attached.

Also I'm not aware of their being a word postfix, the word is suffix.

Current usage of suffixes seems to refer to running numbers, but suffixes have been used since 1962 for different liveried versions. For instance R355 was a freelance 0-4-0 Urie inspired industrial tank loco which first apeared in a blue livery and was named Nellie. That was later given a B suffix to become R355B when Triang also made a yellow version R355Y named Connie, and a red version R355R named Polly. There was also an unnamed black liveried BR version with the catalogue number R359. So there is a 46 year old precedent for suffixes or different R numbers being used to distinguish between different liveries for a model of the same loco.

In case you're wondering why I'm mentioning Triang, that was the name under which the current Hornby company used to market their model railway system when they were part of the Triang/Lines Bros empire. Lines Bros bought Meccano in the 1960s and with it the Hornby trade name, renaming their system Triang-Hornby in 1964. The Triang part of the name was dropped when Lines Bros went broke in 1971 and the Triang name could no longer be used as that was sold off separately to the model railway part of the business.

Keith.

Thank you Keith I stand corrected, you are of course correct with the use of prefix and suffix..

The use of the suffix and its meaning has changed over the years from the Rovex days. A catalogue I have shows R355G in green. In the same catalogue we have R258G Princess Royal class loco as Princess Elizabeth in LMS livery (Maroon). So what did the 'G' suffix actually mean?

The use of symbols was used in some cases for magnadhesion, smoke, lights etc. The 'S' suffix appears to have been used to signify smoke unit fitted. It is now being used by Hornby to signify sound fitted. Out of interest I have just checked the on line Hornby catalogue and the suffix A & B is still used for some locos albeit very few. R2355A/B 0-6-0 class Q1 and R2325B LNER 0-6-0T class J83 are two examples.

Regards

Dave
 

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QUOTE (DRK @ 31 Oct 2008, 13:16) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thank you Keith I stand corrected, you are of course correct with the use of prefix and suffix..

The use of the suffix and its meaning has changed over the years from the Rovex days. A catalogue I have shows R355G in green. In the same catalogue we have R258G Princess Royal class loco as Princess Elizabeth in LMS livery (Maroon). So what did the 'G' suffix actually mean?

The use of symbols was used in some cases for magnadhesion, smoke, lights etc. The 'S' suffix appears to have been used to signify smoke unit fitted. It is now being used by Hornby to signify sound fitted. Out of interest I have just checked the on line Hornby catalogue and the suffix A & B is still used for some locos albeit very few. R2355A/B 0-6-0 class Q1 and R2325B LNER 0-6-0T class J83 are two examples.

Regards

Dave

I guess you're talking about the Triang-Hornby 16th edition catalogue, where Pricess Elizabeth first appeared in LMS livery as R258G. It also featured the Hall class loco Albert Hall in GWR livery as R759G, also for the first time. Previously Albert Hall had only been available in BR livery as R759. So my view is that in this case the G may have been intended to indicate a model in Grouping livery, i.e. LMS or GWR. In both cases the BR liveried versions were dropped from the catalogue, so there was no need to issue a new catalogue number when adding a suffix would do the trick. It didn't apply to the Flying Scotman as that was launched in both BR and LNER liveries at the same time as R850 and R855 respectively. Equally, other locos issued in Grouping liveries but with the BR versions continuing got new R numbers for the 'Big 4' liveried versions.

But the story doesn't end there. In the 17th edition, Princess Elizabeth was still in LMS livery, but had regained smoke and a "chuffing sound" tender and became R258NS (N = Noise?, and S = Smoke). Likewise R759 became R759N, still in GWR livery but also with a "chuffing" tender. They couldn't use S to indicate locos with the 'chuffing' sound as S was already used.

The next year, both Pricess Elizabeth and Albert Hall catalogue numbers changed again to become R258AS and R759A. In this case the A seems to reflect the change to nickel silvered tyred versions from the previous all-Mazak driving wheeled versions, as various other locos also gained A suffixes at the same time. Does A mean amended? Incidentally both 'Elizabeth' and 'Albert' still had "chuffing" tenders even though they lost the N suffix. The Britannia R259 never got an A suffix as it got its N/S tyres at the same time as it got its 'chuffing' tender, and so went from R259S to R259NS.

So in the past the suffixes stood for whatever the Margate management wanted them to stand for, which could be running number, or livery or smoke, or exhaust sound or finerscale wheel flanges, or whatever else was needed to indicate evolution of a model, be it loco, rolling stock, trains set or lineside acessory.

Triang never issued suffixes or new R numbers for models that gained Magnadhesion as that was a one time permanent change. Of course many models were issued with Magnadhesion from their first release, whilst others never had it. When locos were first issued with Smoke they did not get an S suffix at first as there was no choice, you took what was on offer or did without. The S suffix only appeared the following year when Triang reintroduced versions without Smoke, which used the existing R numbers whilst the Smoke versions did get the S suffix.

Incidentally I was never that impressed with the synchrosmoke verions, I always thought the original Seuthe units were much better.

Nowadays the S suffix has reappeared but to indicate locos fitted with DCC Sound chips and appears as XS, the X meaning DCC Fitted. Perhaps it ought to have been XN if the past precedent of using N for Noise had been followed.

Hope you found this interesting.

Keith.
 
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