Model Railway Forum banner
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
DT
Joined
·
4,794 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·


Hornby reported a 3 percent fall in first-half sales and said it was cautious about UK trading in the second half and key Christmas period, sending its shares 11 percent lower on Friday.

"Market indications for Christmas trading in the UK are not encouraging, and I must therefore sound a cautionary note in respect of trading in the second half," Chairman Neil Johnson said in the results statement.

"The results are disappointing. The problem is that the UK high street is absolutely dire at the moment," analyst David O'Brien from Altium securities said, adding that a downgrade is on the cards.

Hornby reported that its international businesses were performing ahead of expectations, however, boosted by new licences.

"Given the potential of the re-invigorated European brands we have high hopes for a growth in European sales," Chief Executive Frank Martin said in the statement.

File photo shows CEO Frank Martin. REUTERS/Vismedia

Sounds a little depressing. To lighten things up, who can identify the trains in the photo?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,650 Posts
I would guess one of them is the Big Boy!


What I am curious to know is what is behind Frank Martin in the top right corner?

Hornby have this habbit of releasing photographs with little clues in.

And considering the analyst has said that high street sales are dire Hornby sales are actually holding up rather well under the circumstances. Its Scalextric holding things back a little.

The truth is city analysts get paid big wads of cash and they have to say something to justify their massive salary. Even if it means stating the bleeding obvious! And Hornby flagged all this up several months ago so its not that unexpected. In fact the performance beats Hornby's own expectations!


Happy modelling
Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
521 Posts
Good question from Doug!

The Witte blinkered beast on far left looks like a German BR10 to me, but I wouldn't bet (much) money on it.

Centre left, again not sure, but suspect a German high speed multiple unit of some sort. Hard to tell if that's a pantograph at the rear of the front unit. The black bit is misleading and it could well be a diesel, BR75?

The centre one has strong Prussian overtones,maybe a T3 or similar, but I'm even less certain of that.

Right of centre, a French TGV? Hmmm, but if all the others are German, that seems quite unlikely.

Far right, German 2-10-0 BR50?

Not very decisive am I!
Pity the camera wasn't focussed on the interesting items instead of that mug shot at the back!
 

·
DT
Joined
·
4,794 Posts


The burgandy one, second from left, is a Thaleys
http://www.hornby.com/HornbyInternational/...ails.aspx?id=31

The one in the middle is a Rivarossi 3 A 25 "Bourbonnais".
http://edn.celeonet.fr/images/Rivarossi/RIV1342.jpg

The silver one is a TGV. Jouef perhaps?
http://lestrainsjouef.free.fr/zoom/images/jf8900.jpg

Neither steam loco on the sides are the French 141
http://www.hornby.com/HornbyInternational/...tails.aspx?id=4
Not sure what they are. They do look German though. French steam locos had larger smoke deflectors

Gary, look in your Rivarossi catalogue for the two steam locos.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
521 Posts
Rail-Rider digs out Rivarossi Catalogue, which is getting on a bit.

QUOTE "1872-1972 "
"A CENTURY OF LOCOMOTIVES BY RIVAROSSI!"

That little green job in the centre could well be 'Bourbonnais' which is in this 33-year old catalogue.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,650 Posts
I have had a look in my Rivarossi catalogue (a mint and perfect "Railways and their history as told by railway models") and the two on the outside are both German.

The one on the left is the 10 001 class 4-6-2 designed for heavy express passenger haulage with semi streamline front.

The one on the right looks like a German Baurheie 39 2-8-2 Mikado judging by the multiple domes on top.

Are these not on the Hornby International website?

Happy modelling
Gary
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,614 Posts
I think it may have been difficult for them due to the lack of excitement in thir range for tha last 8 moths or so. The A3 is nice but I am waiting for the scotsman. Apart form that there really hasent been anything that floats my boat. The A4 is also very nice but I am waiting for a grey one (already having 4 mallards and not licking black). Also there have been no LMS pacifics in LMS maroon. Surely the nicest livery for these loco's.

Also the price of the teak coaches has pushed them out of my reach. I simply cant justify spending £30 on a coach when I can get a nice loco for £40.

Interestingly the price of those coaches is higher in real terms than the new broadway limited california zephyr stock in the US. I admit the teaks are nice, but they aint that nice!.

I dont mind waiting for the livery variations I want but these are the reasons i have not spent any money on hornby stock in the last 8 months.

Hornby international has also been slow to reach the shops. (has anyone seen a single loco yet?) I understand it takes time to get all the moulds sorted out and start production, do the necessary tweaking ect. But they have had what 11 months now? having spent all that money I would have thought there would have been a rush just to get a presence in the shops on the continent. The TGV Ressau amd the THALYS PBKA shown in the picture above were the only models when Lima went belly up, now they have to compete with decent well-recieved models from Mehano. and Mehano has a head-start! (mehano duplex £120-Lima duplex when withdrawn was £180!)

It was also very interesting to read last years anual report saying words to the effect that "we have done so well because we have good relations and work closely with individual retailers". about 2 weeks after I read that they had signed a Rivarossi-style deal with walthers for distribution in the US!

i have just read their press release and found this! "* Hornby Italia, ex-Lima assets performing ahead of expectations" i havent seen a single product!

I am sure they know what they are doing but it is not how I would run the company.

Peter
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,650 Posts
QUOTE Hornby Italia, ex-Lima assets performing ahead of expectations" I havent seen a single product!

When Triang took over Hornby Dublo in 1964, Triang found a factory load of stock that had built up when they visited Liverpool. Apparently the Lima assets included a quantity of completed models. Much of the Lima 2003 range in fact. This has very quietly been placed in the market over the last 12 months and has been snapped up by those in the know.

You have to remember that this was the last of the Italian production and collectors were very keen to purchase I suspect. Remember what happened to Wrenn items 10 years on from the closure of the factory. Prices are 1000% more now than they were then! And even the last of the British Lima from 2004 is already becoming collectable because of the very limited production.

And those coaches that Doug mentions above are very nice and I do hope that Rivarossi reintroduce them at some point. In fact if Hornby International are in a position to reintroduce the entire range in the Rivarossi catalogue that I have then O, HO and N modellers are in for a treat!


Happy modelling
Gary
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,614 Posts
Yes I love the CIWL stock too. However, I understand that the manufacturing of this stock is the easy part! Getting the rights to reproduce the CIWL livery is the difficulty (tha trademark is still owned by Wagon Lits that provide almost all the catering on SNCF). I suspect that Hornby will have more luck than lima did.

I suspect that lima were so strapped for cash that axing the CIWL's was an easy way to save cash.

I saw 6 of these coaches going for £25 each about 2 years ago. I wish I had bought them!
I also believe that there is a set of copycat moulds out there for these coaches. but that company cant produce them either for the same reason. I think they are in eastern europe or russia (does Pola have them??)

I do hope they try and get permission to produce them. i would pay the same price as the current hornby pullmans for one of the CIWL's (they are not lit and no sprung buffers). i suspect that those coaches may be a case of paying a premium to use the trademark. it might even be listed in the catalouge as "£29.99+£3" or something like that. if it did, i would understand and not mind paying for it. this is s similar system to what happens when you buy a union pacific loco in the states (althought it is not priced like that) you pay an extra $2 on most manufacturers prices.

Peter
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
267 Posts
With the 60's and the seacows coming out in the next few weeks, i'd say Hornby have nothing to worry about regarding christmas sales - 1 of each are allready on my list!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,293 Posts
In Hornby's defence I must add that they are not simply shipping the moulds to China and re-starting production. Many of the moulds will get substantial re-tooling and the locos will have 5 pole motors and will be DCC ready - you don't effect changes like that overnight.

Hornby are naturally worried about financial forecasters predicting "retail meltdown" on the high street in the UK before and after Christmas. There can be no doubt that trading is slow and other retailers have already started price wars.

60134
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,614 Posts
While i agree they are not just shipping the moulds out to china, it still does not take 13 months.
the packagine should have been more of less done buy the time the takeover went through.

sorting the moulds, ok lets be generous and give them 2 months.

shipping to china. again 2 months.

tweaking to take the new motors and wheels, for the TGV's/big boy/allengeny, thats all they needed. 2 months.

production and painting prep. 2 months.

painting 1 month

shipping to europe. 2 months.

which means we shoiuld have had them in september.

if you had spent 5 milion on lima you would want to get it back into the shops as quiclky as possible.

Peter
 

·
DT
Joined
·
4,794 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Peter, perhaps you are in the business and know more than us, but what I know is that when one company takes over anther, there is chaos. Quite often management leave, files are destroyed or get mislaid, stock that has to be moved gets lost or sometimes stolen etc.

The new guys have to get their heads around the old stuff. I assume that Hornby Italia probably has some of the old Lima staff, maybe is in the same premises, but they have new masters that have their own agendas, marketing plans and budgets and priorities.

We will soon see the Lima products and hopefully we'll be happy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
334 Posts
There was a photo on one web site of the warehouse and all the moulds. I wouldn't have wanted to log/collate all of those in 2 months. It didn't look an easy task , I think they are doing brillianty to do what they have done, apparently they were working around the clock(I read somewhere else).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,293 Posts
Chaos wouldn't even come close to the situation the management at Hornby were confronted with. Simply cataloguing the existing inventory (or what was left of it) took ages and then the total was nowhere near what they thought they had acquired.

Bankrupt stock is now being sent to the UK in a fairly orderly manner and the team in Italy are indeed working their socks off.

As they say, patience is a virtue....

60134
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Some of the other posters have been thinking about Hornby's strategy. I thought that they might like to read what Bized, one of the leading A level Economics and Business Studies subject sites has on the firm. It might be used in lessons, as a piece of revision, or used by a student to illustate key Business ideas, without using hackneyed text book examples. Tutor2u.net its main rival also covered Hornby in a similar article in January.

In the News

15 November 2005

Value Added

Hornby, the firm that makes model trains and owns the Scalextric brand, has seen its fortunes turn round in recent years. The company was formed in 1907 when the owner, Frank Hornby, saw success with a construction kit based on metal parts called Meccano. Since that time it has become known as a firm that supplies toys and models for hobbyists with its train sets being at the forefront of its business.
It did suffer a decline in fortunes during the latter part of the 1980s and early 1990s but has since consolidated its position in the toy market by diversifying its product range to cater for different market needs and also the production of Scalextric. It has had to cope with changing demand, especially the growth of computer games, and has targeted its market not only at children but also serious adult collectors and model makers.

It managed to boost profits on the back of the Harry Potter brand by making a model of the Hogwarts Express and has also tapped into the small children's market interest in the Thomas the Tank Engine brand. The company expects difficult trading conditions over the Christmas period but did report profits for the first six months of 2005 of around £2.6 million and its share price valued the company at £82.9 million.

Hornby has also acquired business interests in Spain and Italy. In Spain it acquired Electrotren and in Italy, Lima, both model makers in their own right. In 1995 Hornby reacted to the difficulties it was having in trading by moving its manufacturing to China. It is also planning to do the same thing with its Spanish and Italian operations. The move to China did not bring instant results. As late at 1999, Hornby was contemplating selling the business but in the longer term it certainly believes that the move to China was the right one.

Outsourcing its manufacturing has meant that its costs of production have dramatically reduced. In addition, it believes that the quality of the manufacturing and the detail it is able to bring to its models have helped improve its product. The detail is certainly an important factor in the reason why its more mature customers will spend money on buying these models. It currently has a range of products ranging from £50 to £500.

However, the company has been keen to point out that despite moving its manufacturing to China it has still retained the value added sectors of its business in the UK. Value added is the difference between the input price and the value placed on the product by the market. It is an abstract concept in that it is often difficult to measure or pinpoint where this value added comes from.

Hornby suggest that its value added operations are the design and planning stages of its business. The difference between the cost of the raw materials and the price of the model - whatever it is - is not really that important to the firm. In simple terms it is relatively easy for them to manufacture any sort of model train. But crucially, how much is the customer prepared to pay for the end result? The answer to that question depends on the desirability of the model and the value which consumers place on having it.

A model of the Eurostar train, for example, could come in different forms. It could be a bog standard replica or could go into more detail in the construction and design to try to replicate as much as possible the real thing. The skill in this is not in the manufacture but in the design process and the planning for manufacture - the value added. It is this that makes the difference between a customer being prepared to pay £25 for a model and £250. It is about knowing your market and knowing what they place a value in.

It is well worth looking around as you shop and thinking about what the value added of the goods and services you pay for actually are. What is it that makes you willing to part with your money to acquire that product or service?

Pasted from <http://www.bized.ac.uk/cgi-bin/chron/chron.pl?id=2475>
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top