[Ken B]

Hi, as mentioned in the welcome column the other week i would be asking questions so here goes with the first. At the BRM show at P'boro last Oct, I bought my young son Hornby class 59 201 (R2520). I dont currently have a working layout at the moment but both me and my boy regularly visit my friends layout which is something like a twin track 50ft running oval. Great fun yes? Well my boy got his new 59 out and was somewhat disapointed to find that it struggled to pull a mere 6 carriages, whilst my Hornby 25 whch is circa 1982 managed to pull 8 carriages with no effort at all. In fact all my old Lima's managed a better effort than the 59. Fortunately he had a Lima class 52 which had been bought for him last year also and that performed brilliantly, so the 59 was relagated to the sidings!!
Now browsing through many posts on here, i found a few posts regarding said loco and said poor pulling performance, but nothing jumped out about how to improve it. I gather it is a re incarnation of the Lima model anyway. But studying the 2008 Hornby catalougue its says for the 59 that it is twin bogie drive. However my boys version is driven from one bogie only. So my questions are:
Have I bought an early version which preceeded twin bogie drive?
Am i misunderstanding twin bogie drive and it actually means twin axle drive on one bogie???

Lastly can i improve its hauling capabilties simply by adding metal weight( like all my old Limas!!).

Its a DCC ready model, I didnt really want to pull it apart just yet to look inside, but I'm guessing there's not a lot of room inside for adding weight. Personally, I've never been a particular fan of Hornby's loco's hence i only have one in my ageing collection. The Lima's whilst possibly basic by todays standard, were better all rounders in the day. Thinking Hornby may have got their act together, this has done little to restore my conceptions.
Incidentally, I've bought Bachmanns for myself recently but feel they are too "fragile" for my boys hands at the moment.

 

[Sol]

Ken, that model no longer appears on the Hornby website & they came out in 2006. It may well have just one power bogie as compared to later Twin bogie drives- take the body off & have a look. Many are being sold via e-bay, etc.

Just had a look at the official Hornby service sheet & it shows it with one power bogie only http://static.hornby.com/files/ss-294b-class-59-323.pdf

 

[SRman]

There were a few errors in that catalogue, mostly, I suspect, through someonee copying and pasting entries but forgetting to amend some details. The Hornby 59 should have only one driven bogie.

Later issues with that motor bogie design have traction tyres fitted to some wheels (not sure exactly how many wheels involved though). You could call or email Hornby's service people and ask if they can supply a couple of replacment axles with traction tyres. The motor itself is reasonably powerful but simply lacks suffucuent traction. You could add some extra weight as there should be some spare room inside.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

As I recall the Hornby 59s and early 73s were slated for their lack of pulling power (but atleast you didn't get 59005!) Hornby sent out traction tyred wheels for those who weren't happy, your best bet is to contact Hornby for replacement wheels.

 

[34C]

Ken,

Hornby's current range is a very mixed bag. Just looking at the bogie diesels they have all wheel drive versions of the 31/43/50/56/60 all of which run very well, and will pull anything sensible in the way of a load. But alongside these, completely undifferentiated, they have many models based on older tooling from their own range and ex-Lima; all running on power bogies and fairly indifferent performers. The Bachmann range is all good from a tractive point of view, everything has both bogies driven, and usually cheaper like-for-like than Hornby too...

 

[eddscott]

I have an ARC 59 and a Medite 66 that are used as test mules for my layout build. The ARC doesn't have traction tyres and breaks traction at low speeds quite quickly with 3 pairs of intermodal wagons. The Medite has traction tyres (IIRC only 2) but again that will eventually break traction with the same load.

Having said that this is uphill and not level. I have train detection which when the loco is powered up goes back to its previous speed and the ARC59 will spin its wheels up before moving off.

I'm going to get traction tyres to the ARC and I might see if a little wieght increase over the driven bogie might give them a bit more bite.

 

[Ken B]

Thanks guys for the replies. I will contact Hornby in due course.
So would you say the newer Hornby's are worth buying, bearing in mind my lad is only 6 soon be 7 and is still quite heavy handed as kids are. I'm quite happy to buy him new rolling stock and Hornby Locos as long as they are going to perform. I did find a site that had reviewed a new Hornby class 60 and gave it quite high marks in all departments.

Incidently, my Bachmann cl20 got to 12 carriages before that started to lose traction on pull off just as a comparison. I'm impressed with that!!

 

[nobby]

It is not just the Cl 59 that suffers from pulling power, i have found many of the newer models ( great for detail and slow running ) have not got the power to pull lengthy trains especially up any form of incline.

There is a proposed development from a member on here which is worth exploring.

View the thread:

http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index...?showtopic=7479

Despite some of the critiscisms of VI & Heljan locos, i have found not only could they "pull the skin off a rice pudding", they could "pull the pudding and bowl as well"

 

[Ken B]

Interesting read especially as when my home new layout gets started, i had intended to make it two level, with connections. The 59 episode had made me concerned that some new loco's wont be able to cope too well. I'm fortunate in having a 12x12 room available and was hoping that would be a long enough incline to get to the next level. I'm only looking realisticly on my layout for 7/8 carriage train and eqivelant length goods max.

 

[madon37s]

Hi Ken, Welcome to the MRF.

I have to say in my experience with the Hornby Class 60, New 56's that they have no problem with haulage. You might want to try some Bachmann diesels as they seem to have no problem pullong long trains. I have a Class 25 which has pulled 40 HEA wagons!!!
I have to say that for some of the inacuracies with the Lima models they did seem to pull well and the motors although a bit noisy ( great for the class 37's though) did seem to run forever as long as you kept the wheels and track clean.

Might i suggest that if you want to go the incline route you would be wise to try and keep it ABOVE "1 in 40" and even longer if you have the space say "1 in 60".

Hope this helps with your decision in deciding wether to use inclines or not.

Kind regards
Paul

 

[Ken B]

Hi Madon37's, I already have cl24 and cl20 by Bachmann and have a class 47 on the way as a late xmas present. The 20 as i already mentioned made mincemeat of 12 carriages on my test which is more than adequate for what i I want. So its not difficult to acheive, i'm just surprised that 25(ish) years down the line from where i left off, that on my return manufactures still expect modellers to accept poor pulling capabilites.

I take on board your comments on the inclines, thanks.

 

[rb277170]

I'm assuming we are only talking diesels here.

In terms of smooth running and adaquate pulling power the newer Hornby models are good . These are Classes 50,60,31,56(beware there are still earlier versions of the 56 around but I think its still OK). The new HST is also superb.

In addition to the above , Hornby have also brought out models that were made by LIMA. They claimed to have improved them by fitting a 5 pole motor. Probably true in terms of smoothness, but they are challenged when it comes to traction. Initially they came without traction tyres but I think Hornby were forced to retrofit them once it became know their haulage capacity was so poor. I believe you can ask Hornby for new traction tyred wheelsets. These locos are classes 121,73 and 59. Classes 66,156 and 101 I think have traction tyres and are slightly better- however they are still fairly poor .

No knoweledge on Hornby (also ex LIMA) classes 20 and 87

Bachmann and Heljan locos are smooth runners , heavy, and I don't have any issues with haulage of 5-6 coach trains. My Bachmann 20 and 24s are amongst the best diesels I have

Hope this helps

Russell

 

[Ken B]

QUOTE (rb277170 @ 19 Jan 2009, 17:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I'm assuming we are only talking diesels here.

Hope this helps

Russell

Hi yes, I am referring mainly to Diesels. I remember very little of steam as it was in its last year by the time I got dragged to train stations etc by my Brothers and Grandad, so find it difficult to be too interested in them modelling wise. Like to see them in action for real though.
Be curious to know if they suffer the same blights though in the model world.
Grateful for your input all the same.

 

[madon37s]

Hi Ken, Actually NO is the answer to that question about the new Hornby Steam engines I have many of the new ones and there haulage capacity is quite excellent mate.

They run beautifully smooth and slowly aswell.

Kind regards
Paul

 

[Ken B]

I rung Hornby today and they are sending out a set of tyred axles or should that be axles with tyres when they are back in stock. Currently run out!!! I wonder why.
Thanks guys for all the input, you've been very helpful.

 

[madon37s]

Good I'm glad to hear that Ken hopefully when you get them they will make a difference!!

Kind regards
Paul