Hornby Class 66 Diesel now out

QUOTE Has the Hormby 66 got lights has it got 6 axcel drive has it got the performance?

Probably not and it will possibly be as bad a performer as the 121 and Pendos.

I must protest . This is most unfair to the Pendolino and the 121 . Someone on another forum has got hold of the extra coaches and built it up to a 9 car rake , and the motor car moves it ok on the flat. The 121 will move an authentic scale length formation (1 car)

Recycling the Lima 66 with a motor bogie that won't pull the skin off a rice pudding in the face of one of Bachmann's best efforts which retails for a couple of quid more is Hornby's worst British commercial decision of the year

I'll defend the 156, I'm happy to say that we're better off with the Pendo than without it and that the performance is by no means as bad as suggested . I'll even say that with some extra weight a 73 can be made a useful satisfactory loco

But we really could have done without this 66. Anyone thinking of buying one should do 2 things immediately:

- Seek psyciatric assistance
- Order a modern , high spec 66 with a proper mechanism , as made by Bachmann, and available from Hattons for £55-£60

At that price for a proper modern model , there's no place for a piece of recycled Lima 1990s mediocrity, riddled with minor detail errors and fitted with one of the most ineffective mechanisms ever used on a OO loco (Yep , on all available info it's worse than a 58 : and Type 5s are heavy haulers. DMUs aren't)

If you're that desperate for EWS livery buy the DCC sound one, or check ebay or get someone to do a respray

QUOTE Has the Hormby 66 got lights has it got 6 axcel drive has it got the performance?

Probably not and it will possibly be as bad a performer as the 121 and Pendos.

QUOTE I must protest . This is most unfair to the Pendolino and the 121 . Someone on another forum has got hold of the extra coaches and built it up to a 9 car rake , and the motor car moves it ok on the flat. The 121 will move an authentic scale length formation (1 car)

Its important that modellers report on models that they have actually purchased or at least had a chance to run themselves before making such remarks. There could be any number of issues unrelated to the loco that could affect performance. Forums are a good place to seek help if modellers are having performance issues.

It just goes to show how a few missguided remarks on the web can influence the thinking of those who read the information.

Happy modelling
Gary

QUOTE And besides you pointed out in the first post that it is based on the undead Lima tooling (lurching back from the cemetry) so we have seen and suffered it before and the same criticisms will apply even before it crawls into town.

No actually entirely true. It has a new five pole motor and improved pick up and is DCC ready. Is the Bachmann version running a 3 pole motor?

QUOTE True Gary, but those remarks are most likely to be yours!

I try and keep things constructive. If a model really is a below average performer and has a clear fault then at all times I always suggest that the model is returned and exchanged. Its pointless hanging on to a model that you are unhappy with that has a clear fault and is not acting normally.

In terms of the Hornby Class 66 traction tyres and additional weight relative to early Hornby/Lima releases could make a lot of difference so lets see how it stacks up when we start reading running reports.

Happy modelling
Gary

If Vi released a class 66 to the same standard as there class 37 and I had to choose between the Vi 66 and the Horby 66, Vi would get my purchase because Vi listen to there customers the public and can deliver the goods.

Hornby lust listen to there Share Holders and accountants that say the can make more profit by gutting corners on tooling and not producing fully compatible products.

Hornby have repeatedly disappointed a lot of people with some of there recent products and have not done them self any favours.

Lowering the standard of a lot of there latest models just to cut costs, inaccuracy's in reproducing in model form things that would not been allowed only a several of years ago by the Hornby design staff for the only reason that "the real thing is not like that" recreating an accurate model is not in Hornby's plans just Items that they can make cheaply and sell at a high price to make a high prophet is.

Pete

QUOTE (Peter_Harvey @ 13 Jul 2007, 07:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>If Vi released a class 66 to the same standard as there class 37 and I had to choose between the Vi 66 and the Horby 66, Vi would get my purchase because Vi listen to there customers the public and can deliver the goods.

Hornby lust listen to there Share Holders and accountants that say the can make more profit by gutting corners on tooling and not producing fully compatible products.

Hornby have repeatedly disappointed a lot of people with some of there recent products and have not done them self any favours.

Lowering the standard of a lot of there latest models just to cut costs, inaccuracy's in reproducing in model form things that would not been allowed only a several of years ago by the Hornby design staff for the only reason that "the real thing is not like that" recreating an accurate model is not in Hornby's plans just Items that they can make cheaply and sell at a high price to make a high prophet is.

Pete
You know, I would agree with all of that. It is the share holders that are pulling their chain.

QUOTE I must protest . This is most unfair to the Pendolino and the 121 . Someone on another forum has got hold of the extra coaches and built it up to a 9 car rake , and the motor car moves it ok on the flat Disagree with this in regard to the Pendo. I actually own the Pendo so I can't be fobbed off with this. While some individual has got it going on the level, there is no way it is going to get up any slope with nine coaches. My, and many other modellers, layouts are not flat and require something with a bit of oomph to get it up gradients. I am buying my extra coaches one by one as I learned my lesson with the GNER 225 and do not intend to be left with extra coaches that the model can't pull.

If this Class 66 is an ex Lima I would be reluctant to touch it. Besides the Bachmann offering has sound and I've already ordered one. However as Gary says for the modern modeller it does offer new livery and running numbers so there is a potential market.

I'll see Peter down the club later!

QUOTE If Vi released a class 66 to the same standard as there class 37 and I had to choose between the Vi 66 and the Horby 66, Vi would get my purchase because Vi listen to there customers the public and can deliver the goods.

If a ViTrains Class 66 had the same running qualities as a ViTrains 37 I would be very happy however there are those who would not be. You cannot please all of the people all of the time. ViTrains have to date released one British outline product.

QUOTE Hornby lust listen to there Share Holders and accountants that say the can make more profit by gutting corners on tooling and not producing fully compatible products.

Hornby will release over 1000 British outline products this year. Hornby staff who read this remark will be highly offended. Neil. You have spoken with Simon Kohler in Australia. You should know better than to agree with such comment.

QUOTE Hornby have repeatedly disappointed a lot of people with some of there recent products and have not done them self any favours.

They have satisfied a huge number of customers. Given that the number of satisfied customers who provide repeat custom likely runs into the hundreds of thousands this comment is questionable. Hornby are never going to satisfy those who want Rolls Royce hand crafted type products and who are prepared to pay the price. That is not their market.

QUOTE Lowering the standard of a lot of there latest models just to cut costs, inaccuracy's in reproducing in model form things that would not been allowed only a several of years ago by the Hornby design staff for the only reason that "the real thing is not like that" recreating an accurate model is not in Hornby's plans just Items that they can make cheaply and sell at a high price to make a high prophet is.

You are not talking about the King Arthurs, the Class 60, the M7, the Q1 and all there newly designed models created in the lats 10 years surely! The Pendo was designed from the outset to be a train set model and there is broad agreement that it is much better than Dapols effort.

If you are talking about the ex Lima models then they have been improved where possible within the constraints set by using the Lima moulds. The former Lima models used traction tyres and Hornby may have made a mistake not doing the same with these models.

QUOTE Any model railway/railroad firm that has to resort to fitting traction tyres on, so the loco can pull more than itself around is so far behind the times, it is in-excusable.

Marklin models have traction tyres. ViTrains models have traction tyre. And so on. This traction tyre sensitivity seems to be a uniquely British/Australian issue that does not concern Americans or Mainland Europeans.

Happy modelling
Gary

Happy modelling
Gary

Gary, Australian locos have NOT had traction tyres for many years since Lima left & the Australian models now made in China are using what is really a standard for diesels - centally mounted 5 pole skew wound motor with flywheels - all wheel drive & pickup. Even steam locos are first class

So if USA & Australia & Bachmann UK do not need traction tyres, I see no reason why the other manufacturers have to use them - can you?

Aust diesels sell for about £100 - yes dearer than UK diesels but we have a lot less modellers than the UK so the selling range is less.

Your comment "They have satisfied a huge number of customers. Given that the number of satisfied customers who provide repeat business likely runs into the hundreds of thousands this comment is questionable."
Yes no doubt Hornby have sold a lot but are the customers satisfied - are they aware that there are better locos around? Possibly not ! They maybe table top runners of trains which are a different breed to modellers - in my opinion.

QUOTE My concern is why do Hornby not maintain the standards they have already set - look at the Class 31 for example. Standard type drive - all wheel & pickup - no need of traction tyres. Why the hurry to reintroduce ex-Lima locos that are not to the same standard.?

There is little argument that Bachmann have released models for adults of consistent standard and Hornby have released models for adults whose standard is variant. Hornby claim to have only released former Lima models which they feel are acceptable to todays modellers. Hornby do not pretend that they are top of the range and the price at which the former Lima models are offered reflects this.

It cannot be denied that it is a little odd that former Lima models have a better hauling capacity than their recent Hornby reincarnations. It would surprise me if Hornby were happy with this situation! Let us hope that Hornby were not influenced by the "do not fit traction tyres under any circumstances" mentality rather than one of being practical about things. The moment that Hornby are influenced by what is fashionable rather than what is practical is the moment that their models are doomed!

The former Lima models did have traction tyres. It is definitely a bridge too far to expect the same model without traction tyres to have the same hauling capacity.

I suspect that the major retooling required to the Lima chassis to bring the former Lima models up to a standard where they don't need traction tyres is deemed not worthwhile by Hornby. If this is the case they should have stuck with the tried and tested formula and used traction tyres!

We are surely all in agreement though that many of the former Lima models are welcome additions to the Hornby range.

Or are we?

Happy modelling
Gary

PS On the fashion thing tender drive was fashionable once so Hornby developed tender drive. This did absolutely nothing for me even though the models did perform well. "Stick with the tried and tested and ignore fashion" should be the motto of any company to keep their customers happy!