Hornby Elite light function problem

QUOTE (Madkitten @ 12 Sep 2008, 21:51) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hiya,

Dont know if i can help much but i work for a model shop and we have nothing but problems with hornby dcc - your problem is a very common one. Some people seem to have no problems atall and others get so annoyed they exchange there entire controller etc in for either Gaugemaster or bachmann units instead. Are you having the light problem on hornby locomotives or on locomotives from other manufacturers ? I seem to remember some one saying that you have to turn the chips the opposite way round in some locomotives with hornby chips - but dont quote me on that!!! I think that richard Johnson might be the best person to ask as his knowledge of dcc is very very good.

nikki

Hi Nikki

Thanks for your prompt reply - very interesting information. I'll try switching the chip around and take it from there.

Regards

Steve

QUOTE (wiggy25 @ 12 Sep 2008, 22:40) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Are these the 'old' Hornby decoders or the new NMRA ones?

I've got some locos converted and any lights fitted work fine using the Elite.
I don't have any locos chipped with the Hornby chip that has lights fitted.

It may well be the decoder!

Which function number are you using to turn the lights on/off?

Try using different function numbers just in case!

Hi - Thanks for your reply. The decoders are the new type. I've swapped them over, switched them the opposite way around and tried different function numbers. Still no working lights, though!

I may have to contact Hornby.

In the meantime many thanks to you and Nikki for your advice. Any further suggestions will be welcomed.

Cheers

Steve

QUOTE (scf1 @ 13 Sep 2008, 04:16) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I've recently converted my layout to DCC (using the Hornby Elite) and inserted Hornby 4 function decoders to 3 of my locos.

One of the three locos has lights (Hornby's recent class 60). Despite following the instructions carefully (including aligning the 'orange wire with the number 1 pin socket') and getting the locos moving OK, I cannot get the lights to work - they worked fine prior to conversion.

Can anyone help please?

Many thanks.

***There are two indications that the plug is in the wrong way. One is that lights do not work, the other that the loco will go in reverse when the controller indicates forward.

As you can't see the lights yet, orient the plug so it goes forward properly.

I note you are new to DCC - Sometimes even the simple things are not made all that clear because of weak instruction manual content.... Its perhaps a silly question, but did you turn the lights on with the controller?

Lights need to be turned on and off with DCC, although they are usually deafulted to reverse automatically once on.

Function zero is the light on/off function button.

Instructions for light control are not really shown at all in the Elite instruction book, however function control in general is shown on page 18.

Regards

Richard

QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 14 Sep 2008, 05:11) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>***There are two indications that the plug is in the wrong way. One is that lights do not work, the other that the loco will go in reverse when the controller indicates forward.

As you can't see the lights yet, orient the plug so it goes forward properly.

I note you are new to DCC - Sometimes even the simple things are not made all that clear because of weak instruction manual content.... Its perhaps a silly question, but did you turn the lights on with the controller?

Lights need to be turned on and off with DCC, although they are usually deafulted to reverse automatically once on.

Function zero is the light on/off function button.

Instructions for light control are not really shown at all in the Elite instruction book, however function control in general is shown on page 18.

Regards

Richard

BINGO! Thank you Richard. I had tried all the things mentioned already, apart from the function zero (the decoder instructions suggested they were at functions 1 (front) and 2 (rear)). Many thanks indeed for your advice and to everyone else who have taken the time to help.

EXCELLENT!

Regards

Steve

QUOTE (scf1 @ 14 Sep 2008, 13:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>BINGO! Thank you Richard. I had tried all the things mentioned already, apart from the function zero (the decoder instructions suggested they were at functions 1 (front) and 2 (rear)). Many thanks indeed for your advice and to everyone else who have taken the time to help.

EXCELLENT!

Regards

Steve

I have also problems with this system

I was given a large amount of Hornby Equipment to build a system for a friend

1 a complete DCC Hornby Pullman set, a Bachman Tank loco and a Hornby Decoder to fit, A Bachman Class20 fitted with decoder and sound
+ about 20 Hornby points of varoius types, and around 60 ft of flexi track

I programed all the locos on the Elites Programing track outlet , and then set up a long oval as a temp track to run them in
One by one they all run OK
With the 3 With Hornby decoders run Ok on he same circuit,
But if I put the Bachman Class 20 on the line, the sound functions operate never mind which controler is used ie: the class 20 is set with n°20 but if I select a function like the sound while N°3 is selected 5 (the tank loco) then the class 20 sound will stop or start dependind were it was set, also the class 20 will run, but none of the others

Has anyone any idear if you an only run Hornby decoders on a layout or can you run locos wth any type of decoder

The Whole prodject is now on hold till this problem is sorted

Ok,

So we know all of the Hornby locos run ok together on the same track.

Try the Bachmann Class 20 with sound on it's own on the track, and try to operate all sound functions.

If this is ok, try one of the Hornby Locos on the track with the Class 20.

Make sure that when you operate the functions, that the correct control knob is activated!

EG:-

Make control knob one operate the class20 and control knob two operate a different loco.
Turn control knob one again to make sure this is the active control knob, then try operating the functions.

QUOTE But if I put the Bachman Class 20 on the line, the sound functions operate never mind which controler is used ie: the class 20 is set with n°20 but if I select a function like the sound while N°3 is selected 5 (the tank loco) then the class 20 sound will stop or start dependind were it was set, also the class 20 will run, but none of the others
I don't quite understand this bit, it reads like you are operating the functions for the wrong control knob?

You can run any locomotive on the layout fitted with any decoder that is NMRA compliant.

QUOTE (Mike88 @ 14 Sep 2008, 22:46) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I have also problems with this system

I was given a large amount of Hornby Equipment to build a system for a friend

1 a complete DCC Hornby Pullman set, a Bachman Tank loco and a Hornby Decoder to fit, A Bachman Class20 fitted with decoder and sound
+ about 20 Hornby points of varoius types, and around 60 ft of flexi track

I programed all the locos on the Elites Programing track outlet , and then set up a long oval as a temp track to run them in
One by one they all run OK
With the 3 With Hornby decoders run Ok on he same circuit,
But if I put the Bachman Class 20 on the line, the sound functions operate never mind which controler is used ie: the class 20 is set with n°20 but if I select a function like the sound while N°3 is selected 5 (the tank loco) then the class 20 sound will stop or start dependind were it was set, also the class 20 will run, but none of the others

Has anyone any idear if you an only run Hornby decoders on a layout or can you run locos wth any type of decoder

The Whole prodject is now on hold till this problem is sorted


*** I note Ians comment, however operating functions shouldn't be a matter of operating sequence or selective dyslexia - it should be a one button push operation!

No matter what you do, whilst H have at last acknowledged NMRA standards with Elite, the way Hornby has designed this controllers control interface makes operating of functions inherently clumsy and frustrating.

This will always be apparent particularly with sound locos, as where a well designed programme needs one button to be pushed to sound a horn or ring a bell etc, Elite takes 3 actions... confusion and frustration very frequently result.

If use of sound loco's or operating functions are important, I would seriously consider E-baying the Elite and buying a high quality controller such as the NCE PowerCab... As the powercab will be about GBP100 in UK, you should get enough for the Elite to pay for it!

Powercab has a good concise manual, clear onscreen communication, exceptionally good programming abilities, much more instinctive overall control abilities than the Elite and one button access to all common functions. If the system grows to need more than half a dozen or so loco's running at once, then PowerCabs upgrade path for increased power is direct and waste free, as Powercab has the full function access of the big NCE system already built in.

Richard.

QUOTE (wiggy25 @ 14 Sep 2008, 22:42) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ok,

So we know all of the Hornby locos run ok together on the same track.

Try the Bachmann Class 20 with sound on it's own on the track, and try to operate all sound functions.

If this is ok, try one of the Hornby Locos on the track with the Class 20.

Make sure that when you operate the functions, that the correct control knob is activated!

EG:-

Make control knob one operate the class20 and control knob two operate a different loco.
Turn control knob one again to make sure this is the active control knob, then try operating the functions.

I don't quite understand this bit, it reads like you are operating the functions for the wrong control knob?

You can run any locomotive on the layout fitted with any decoder that is NMRA compliant.

Maybe I dint make it quite clear

All locos were programed on the programing track and outlet

one by one on the main oval they work ok and respond to the address given them
If I place the 3 with Hornby Decoders fitted ( 2 are factory fitted from the Pullman Set and one I fitted into the Backman Tank ((Fairburn))) they respond to the numbers given and all run OK
If I place any of the hornby fitted ones on the oval with the Class20 (Bachman with sound)
the class 20 will run and all the sound functions operate ( the lights will not work ) but the other loco will not run
I have tried with the class 20 on button 1 and on button 2 but its just the same the other loco will not respond to the other button
If I stop all the functions on the class 20 it runs but still the other loco will not respond
the class 20 is programed as number 20 the others are 3, 6 and 12
so if I select the class 20 on button 1 it runs OK, if I select it on button 2 it runs so thats all well
now if I select another loco with the other button say the tank which is number 3 and the select function 3 for the horn ( its not fitted with sound anyway ) then the horn on the class 20 sounds altho this is selected on the other button, but the engine will not move, remove the class 20 from the track then the tank loco will move, place the class 20 back and now the tank will not move again

I have not yet upgraded the Eite Unit but that should not be causing this problem

maybe it does not like different decoders on the track at the same time but then I would have thought it would have operated its own type (Hornby) and discarded the bachman unit ???

anyway have had to take the lady away on holiday so any testing is now pospone for a week
will upgrade the Elite when I get back home and reprogram everything again and giv it another try

the lights on the class 20 have never worked never mind were it is, so thats another problem to sort

the gentleman who advised to sell the Elite and get another make of controler may have forgot that its not mine,, all this equipment was handed to me to build a small layout for a friends son
my layout is in N and still uses a conventional DC controller

thanks for the feed back
I will report back later with any results

Yep the firmware will make a difference and cause problems with the sounds and functions!!!
It sounds(no pun intended) that you are on V1.1.
When you first switch the Elite on it will be displayed on the screen as V1.1

The current firmware is V1.3

In V1.1 if you operate a function on controller one it will indeed turn it on for controller two as well, likewise if you turn the function off!
This has been fixed in firmware V1.2

Some of the sound functions wouldn't work correctly as well IIRC.
Not sure if this is causing the problem.

You may also find that if the Hornby Locos have the old decoder fitted, these may not work with the latest firmware!!
You will need to go into the menu of the Elite and select 'CLASSIC' mode this does something to allow the Elite to work with these old decoders.
When you install firmware V1.3 the default setting is 'STANDARD' mode.
I would try and leave it on that first see if everything works ok, if not try using the 'CLASSIC' mode.

As for the loco not running, which Hornby decoder have you fitted, the new NMRA type or the old ones?
Did you remove the capacitors?

Cheers

QUOTE (wiggy25 @ 19 Sep 2008, 00:25) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yep the firmware will make a difference and cause problems with the sounds and functions!!!
It sounds(no pun intended) that you are on V1.1.
When you first switch the Elite on it will be displayed on the screen as V1.1

The current firmware is V1.3

In V1.1 if you operate a function on controller one it will indeed turn it on for controller two as well, likewise if you turn the function off!
This has been fixed in firmware V1.2

Some of the sound functions wouldn't work correctly as well IIRC.
Not sure if this is causing the problem.

You may also find that if the Hornby Locos have the old decoder fitted, these may not work with the latest firmware!!
You will need to go into the menu of the Elite and select 'CLASSIC' mode this does something to allow the Elite to work with these old decoders.
When you install firmware V1.3 the default setting is 'STANDARD' mode.
I would try and leave it on that first see if everything works ok, if not try using the 'CLASSIC' mode.

As for the loco not running, which Hornby decoder have you fitted, the new NMRA type or the old ones?
Did you remove the capacitors?

Cheers

Ok so progress of sorts has been made

I upgraded the Firmware on the Elite o 1.3 ( all went well )

Now all locos work togeather or independant on the same track ( set up a double oval and 2 sidings to test them)

The Bachman class20 runs better than the hornby fitted ones ( but they run)

And now the class20 functions only respond when its selected ( button 1 or 2)

But still a problem with the class 20

N° 1 It runs the wrong way ( the others run in the correct direction )
N° 2 The lights will not operate

I suppose its not possible that Bachman Fitted the decoder in the wrong way round ? or maybe the pickups are reversed
Or maybe they set them up like this because on the continent the locos run on the right not the left ( but I assume when they make british outline they know this )

Anyway before I open it to check I am going to a Mates this weekend and he has a HO DCC layout, so we will test it there first ( he has Lenz Equipment )

I will also tell the chap who ownes these units to consider changing the decoders ( trash the hornby ones )

I fitted one of my Lenz silvers in the Fairburn in place of thr Hornby and the Loco run much better
The Hornby ones are the old ones ( no red spot )

anyway thanks for the responce here
I will let you know how it goes

QUOTE N° 1 It runs the wrong way ( the others run in the correct direction )
What is the right way? This is debatable. I found the same issue with mine, but it's best to set the direction you want as the front with CV29. Not a problem. I have mine cab forward as forward as I often run it with other locos.

QUOTE N° 2 The lights will not operate
What lights? I don't have lights on mine...

See more info: here.

Also, it is a good idea to read the full sound decoder manual from Loksound: here.

QUOTE (Doug @ 25 Sep 2008, 16:36) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>What is the right way? This is debatable. I found the same issue with mine, but it's best to set the direction you want as the front with CV29. Not a problem. I have mine cab forward as forward as I often run it with other locos.

What lights? I don't have lights on mine...

See more info: here.

Also, it is a good idea to read the full sound decoder manual from Loksound: here.

Well I think its normal to run cab forward on a single unit, thats why in practice they were normaly run in pairs ( cab at each end) otherwise there's not so much visibility
my understanding is that with UK locos forward would be on the Left of the unit while looking from the left side
anyway the other 4 locos ( steam ) run boiler first when placed on the track without having to change anything
as for the lights I havent opend it, but the pub that came with it states there are lights, on function 0
mind you the lights situation would not be a problem for me, but the guy bought it on the understanding it had lights and sound !!

there is an option while programing with the Elite to select the direction ( normal or reverse) but that would't correct the lights not working

QUOTE (Mike88 @ 26 Sep 2008, 08:55) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Well I think its normal to run cab forward on a single unit, thats why in practice they were normaly run in pairs ( cab at each end) otherwise there's not so much visibility
my understanding is that with UK locos forward would be on the Left of the unit while looking from the left side
anyway the other 4 locos ( steam ) run boiler first when placed on the track without having to change anything
as for the lights I havent opend it, but the pub that came with it states there are lights, on function 0
mind you the lights situation would not be a problem for me, but the guy bought it on the understanding it had lights and sound !!

there is an option while programing with the Elite to select the direction ( normal or reverse) but that would't correct the lights not working

Plot thickens
Just been to Bachmans site and can't even find the loco listed

Bachman Branch-Lines (Blue Riband) DCC Sound
32-043DS Class 20 Diesel BR Blue with Indicator Boxes