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In presentation their effort on line in the form of the engine shed strikes me as far more likely to succeed if developed. When I want to see what's available, I go to Hattons site. That's the right direction to go in presentation, not that it is perfect: but what it is, is useful. It's the actual item that got produced for a start, not a catalogue illustration of intent, the model very definitely not having been produced at the time the catalogue was committed to print!
 

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And right on time as if to show how it might be done, Hattons have put advance samples of their Barclay in the hands of the online video reviewers, in addition to the magazines. This thing is 'trending' if I understand the jargon. (Probably the jargon of five years ago, but I don't have a tech savvy teen to consult at the moment.)
 

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Hi Folks The other very big advantage of Hattons website is that their pictures show models from different angles once they are available. This may be unfortunate in some instances as some of these views may not show "The best side" which manufacturer's pictures might not "by accident" have shown. Perhaps Hornby ought to cooperate with Hattons and have the same arrangement although if the models have not been released that clearly is not possible from Hattons. Hornby often show models some time before release and could easily upload such views when they are sure the model is finalised. This latest catalogue seems to have been compiled by someone using out of date pictures which has made some people think that some retrograde steps may be taking place. Hopefully it is just that, and not that coaches such as the Gresley corridor stock are reverting to the original inaccurate graining on the doors and mis-positioned waist beading. However with Hornby you cannot always take that for granted.
 

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Hi Folks I am sure one of the Hornby aficionados will know this for certain but I thought the Gresley FULL BRAKE in Teak livery came out AFTER the fiasco with vertically grained door panela and also after the wasit beading was moved down to the correct position. If that is so, how come the illustration on the Hornby catalogue 2018 New Models website has a picture of the full brake with both beading and graining wrong. This model came out sometime after the other coaches and I was sure it was the first with both corrections.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Thanks for the comments guys and gals so what does this add up to for Hornby. I did a review last year in regards to the models listed in the British Train models publication and no doubt I'll have another look this year, generally much I agreed with but not all. I can do so as I own quite a few (well nearly all) of the steam models listed so now I thought I would reveiew whether they can get Kris's recommendation.

LOCOS part1.
Brittania 'Oliver Cromwell' The Brit is a bit of a Cinderella model, really rather good but it is quite long for many layouts however the fact that these are not discounted ever so far as I have seen, no real vices, can pull well, smooth and has a good motion so a decent buy but at the price I guess you have to want one to buy one but certainly I would be willing to have another, my Clan is basically the same of course and that is a little bit better not for any particular reason. 8/10

Stanier 4-6-2 incl Streamliner, not been able to get hold of the non streamliner and the streamlined version has no interest for me, that said the model drawings show a fine effort and I hope one day a Duchess will steam into Towcaster but I simply cannot rate at this time.

Gresley A4, Good model perhaps not the very best assuming it is similar to the ones I do have depends upon the price but been around a long time so I would place this at 6/10 however this is because it is an older effort and the latest models are that bit better generally, my newest Sparrowhawk is very nice although the lubricator crank fell off so yes nice loco but I stick by 6/10.

Bullied Merchant Navy, the unrebuilt is of no interest but might consider the later one for my 1962 layout, they look good for sure but I feel I cannot rate as I have neither.

Gresley A3, an evergreen model been around and probably the last steam model that will be made as the most famous of locos, I like the 1959 version of 60103 and my similar Brown Jack is nice to have around and as there were quite a few and they went onto secondary duties so did get around, a decent model but much in common with the A4 so I'll call it 6/10

Bullied West Country/BoB the rebuilt versions got around a bit and so is of interest but I have neither so cannot rate.

Urie S15, a very nice mixed traffic loco, love the looks and its motion, good track manners and a nice runner, mine possibly has a motor playing up but these can be bought some models at a discount and this makes them a bargain so a decent 8/10 for this one and despite the numbers of locos I have this is a popular regular.

Urie N15, another nice loco that is competent in fact the first modern loco I bought new and it is still nice, I have two of these but they do not get the work they deserve but if you can use one then make an excuse to buy - a good un 7/10

GWR King, the big King was limited to a few lines so I have left this one out and cannot rate it.

Maunsell Nelson, looks good and I have high confidence, I may buy one so we'll see how we go look forward to getting my hands on one - not rated

GWR Castle, another nice effort but again I do not have one so I have not rated it.

GWR Star, I assume it has the same underpinings as the Castle I do fancy one of these but it is no priority.

GWR Grange, I have one and it is a very good effort, has been a good puller good on the track and never any bother, this loco can be found work on any western layout so a decent 8/10

Thompson B1, one of the most useful and nicest locos ever produced, usual Hornby good track manners can tackle any job, good haulage and hill climbing have decided to add another I have 4 currently so an easy 9/10

LNER B12/3, a huge improvement on the old Triang effort, this is a lovely model and again smooth and powerful and another firm favourite on the layout 9/10

Gresley B17, very similar to the B1 in many ways and operates just as well again good on the track, haulage and hill climbing, hard to go wrong if a bargain is on offer and has to be another 9/10

Rebuilt Patriot/Scot, excellent effort and nice to see in the catalog with some options there were a lot of these and seen across the midlands and north so a good one to buy and have on the layout, I have 8 of these as father collected quite a few so always a useful loco 7/10.
 

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I would be surprised if you were to rate the Hornby Castle any differently overall from the B1/B12/B17. Looks right, measures up well with just one cunning adjustment of the outside cylinder position which usn't visibly apparent, Hornby's usual excellent finish, quiet and smooth mechanism and a trouble free runner. When it first came out I bought one to represent the Swindon four cylinder 4-6-0 development: a foreigner on my ECML layout, used on occasional SLS or RCTS specials.
 

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I agree with 34C, on the Castles. I have 2, albeit one is a Hogwarts, but they both run very well indeed, detailing is well applied. Both are loco motor versions and pull like ..... well ... a train!! Definitely 9/10 material.

I also rate the newer A4s too, I have 4 of them, all are new and have very well added detail, apart from the new Railroad one [shades of the previous non-Railroad version] which allows for easy comparison. All look the part and run very smoothly, but the newer detailing is a big step forward. One has 2 matters which are not quite right, but the others don't, so maybe 8/10 rather than 9. [A couple of white boiler lines are clearly a bit wide and the hole for the chassis fixing screw is slightly larger than is should be and can allow it to be screwed in where it allows the lugs at the rear to disengage. The others don't and a stop on the front of the chassis cured it. The screw is clearly a one off, so I.m not sure that counts.]

Kind regards

Julian
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Thanks for that both, I would have confidence that the Hornby Castle is good at 9/10 and accept your judgement entirely. I can accept that the newer A4 is an evolving model so although my Sparrowhawk is so very good the older ones have marked it down so a 7/10 it shall be for these newer versions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
LOCOS Part2

Before I go any further the comments and conclusion reached here are based on my own experiences and are for amusement purposes there is nothing like asking someone who has one as to whether a proposed purchase is a peach or a lemon, I am always able to re-evaluate as well.

Stanier Black 5, actually Colemans masterpeice (he actually designed it), getting a bit old now but still an effective model, has some good features such as sprung rear axle but this was an excellent job from the get go, a few features could be uprated such as the tender and I have had trouble with fragile blower steam pipes but I have a few of these although some need attention and there is almost always one on the layout in the active roster and I recently bought a good secondhand one as well. Possibly the widest spread steam loco could literally be seen anywhere. Still good but a small upgrade would put it there with the B1 which is a newer model so a solid 8/10 from me.

Riddles 4MT, Good looking model with heaps of detail however a bit fragile even had motors come loose and has been troublesome in some areas, I have two in bits currently so although as good as the B1 in looks its actual performance is not as good as would be hoped and thus I have downrated this model to 6/10.

Thompson K1, an excellent effort, the K1 is no express loco from glorious named trains but this is an excellent model, some versions can be bought for less than £90 and at that it is a great loco, hill climbing, track manners, pulling, speed control, looks it has the lot so I have to mark this very high also none of the L1 front pony truck either I cannot think of a fault but assume there must be one so 9.9/10 - I have 2 of these and love them both.

Stanier 8F, the freight companion to the Black 5, another hit from Hornby, the 8F was nearly as large in number built and got around a lot, the Hornby model has been around a while but is still good and 48045 a Fowler tender version is on my aquisition list, I have 4 of these and they are all good and all used on the layout so a nice effort however again needs a bit of work to get up to K1 levels so 7.5/10

Raven Q6, The Raven is a new model and is a simple one with inside cylinders so should have been easy to design and make, I have one but I have found it weak on hill climbing and pulling effort no better than an 0-6-0 which I put down to a small motor using high gearing but still short of pulling power, as a result I think it is expensive for what it is and award 6/10

Thompson D16/3, a useful lightweight passenger effort for the eastern lines of the LNER as rebuilt by Thompson whilst in charge at Stratford works. this model is very nice, has as much detail as exists so difficult to add more, smooth, good manners a bit weak on pulling but this is due to the 4-4-0 format, I found as I added coaches that the tender wanted to shorten the chord and had to add weight but it looks nice and some examples can be brought very cheaply in the £80 range which is a bargain but overall an 8.5/10

Maunsell V class Schools, I had one a while back but sold it, this one has traction tyres but I do not know about this current one so is hard to see but may be free but on this basis cannot rate.

Holmes J36, Looking good hope it does well, Hornby have been doing well with 0-6-0 locos of late such as the 700 black motor so I expect good performance but cannot rate, quite fancy the NBR version all the same.

Bullied Q1 'Frankenstien' I have one of these too and it is an interesting and different loco, good pulling power so overall 7/10

GER J15, a throwback to the Victorians a small 0-6-0 with a big pulling effort so a surprisiongly useful loco and one that is worth a second look, no vices and a very competent effort, 5 versions available so no excuse to not buy one. 9/10

Thompson L1, this should be 10/10 up there with the very best but the erratic front truck arrangement is enough to pull the rating down just hope Hornby can get rid of this idea as soon as possible and as a result I give it 7/10 on the basis that some are less of a problem than others, mine is a dog and improvements as detailed on here recently will be tried soon.

Fowler 2-6-4tank, A long lived model I have one but it is a reluctant runner presently, an older model and not great in this company just wonder if it has been upgraded at all but decline to rate as mine is an older version.

GWR 42xx, 2-8-0 tank, I have the companion 2-8-2 tank which is quite good so a fair model climbs quite well and likely geared and motored as per the Q6 so OK but probably a 6/10 (also for the 2-8-2t)

Maunsell M7, no idea about these but they always strike me as the most overpriced models in the OO world. cannot rate.

Wainwright H class, looks really nice but again cannot rate as have never seen one.

Adams 415 class tank. Another good looker but again never had one, I bought an Oxford but it was useless but I would expect the Hornby to be more competent but cannot rate as no experience

J50 tank, A good looking loco which I use on my layout, quite good all round and looks the part only issue has a stutter on insulfrog points so a slight points loss there but otherwise a good one to have 7.5/10

All the rest up next
 

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The Maunsell M7 0-4-4T. I have one, used on the cross London freight transfer turns. Worth every penny! Dimensions and appearance very good, the applied detail includes just about everything practical on a commercial 4mm RTR model, and it runs and pulls well. On level track it will perform the ECS job they were latterly famed for, a dozen coaches can be realistically started and pulled at slow speed. Traction goes the to dogs when there is any sort of gradient, hardly a surprise with this wheel arrangement; but short of a very ambitious compensated suspension this has to be expected.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
OK sounds better than I thought, the M7 originally appeared in very early Hornby days after the switch of Triang into Hornby must have been around 1969 in fact I have all the original catalogs from those days, so how many versions have there been since then. An 8/10?

Now this begs the question about modifications and upgrades ongoing at Hornby and when they do these because they are not listed, clearly adding dcc was a change, altering the tender pick up to the silly white plug, the motors, traction tyres then removing same it must be pretty constant and makes me wonder about the serial numbers a whole subject area for study here and this is needed by those who buy secondhand to avoid the lemons.

From the above some news for Hornby

1. The uncased Duchess is of interest
2. The Fowler tender 8F
3. another B1
4. Another Black 5
6. Like to look at a Nelson
7. The Peckett may be of interest
8. NBR livery J36 just for fun
so some chance of a sale or two there Hornby but tell me why I should dump older versions to buy the latest effort and when are you going to make a rebuilt Crosti?
 

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QUOTE (kristopher1805 @ 11 Feb 2018, 20:33) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>OK sounds better than I thought, the M7 originally appeared in very early Hornby days after the switch of Triang into Hornby must have been around 1969 in fact I have all the original catalogs from those days, so how many versions have there been since then. An 8/10?...
The current M7 has no relationship to the earlier item, other than the M7 classification and 0-4-4T wheel arrangement. I have no real knowledge of the earlier item.

In terms of a rating of the current model, on par with the best of Hornby's current output for dimensions and appearance.

The limitation is the traction fall off on any gradient, partly because of the inherent characteristic of the wheel arrangement. Hornby could have done a better job on the M7 mechanism layout; the much later D16/3 shows progress on this front, and I shall be interested to see if any of this has appeared in the H class 0-4-4T mechanism design. In short, put the motor and DCC socket toward the bogie end of the mechanism, pack all the available volume above the driven wheelbase with metal. On the M7, both motor and decoder socket and void are wholly or partially over the driven wheelbase, reducing the potential maximum weight from what could have been achieved with better layout. This also makes decoder installation something of a pig: completely unnecessarily when such light weight tackle could be placed in the ample cuboid bunker space, where the designer would have to make a real pig's breakfast of the layout to make a difficult DCC decoder installation.

QUOTE (kristopher1805 @ 11 Feb 2018, 20:33) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>...tell me why I should dump older versions to buy the latest effort...
My baseline standard for those products that potentially suit my interest is simply 'is it a credible model?'. In terms of Hornby's China designed output the outright rejects are the Brush type 2 (class 30) and Gresley gangwayed coaches: both are visually deviant from protoype appearance, not models at all in my opinion. (I happily use the excellent drive from the mazak rotted Brush type 2s obtained s/h to power earlier body shells which actually look right, but had dire mechanisms. It's an ill-wind that blows nobody any good.)

The Stanier 8F was something of a grudge purchase for me, thanks to that spinning gear shaft end on view. Overall it does look like an 8F sufficiently enough to rescue it, but sooner or later I am going to have to drop a kit gearbox into it for a concealed drive line. I'd trade up in a heartbeat if Hornby renewed the 8F to the standard of their Thompson O1.
 

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QUOTE (34C @ 12 Feb 2018, 09:46) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>This also makes decoder installation something of a pig: completely unnecessarily when such light weight tackle could be placed in the ample cuboid bunker space, where the designer would have to make a real pig's breakfast of the layout to make a difficult DCC decoder installation.
Actually its a very simple loco to fit a decoder to provided you have the right decoder. Ignore Hornbys instruction to remove a weight as the M7 obviously needs as much weight as it can get in the right places and either
1.fit a suitably small enough direct fit decoder, I have two with TCS DP2X-UKs fitted; these have to fitted the wrong way round in order to get the body back on but that is not an issue as there are no lights and a quick change of CV29 corrects the loco running the wrong way, or
2.remove the 8 pin socket and all of Hornbys wiring bar the solitary wire leading from the pick ups. Hard wire a suitable decoder (I have a TCS M1 in another M7) with the motor wires soldered direct to the motor, one track lead to the tag on the chassis block and the other to the wire referred to early with heat shrink over the joint.
 

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QUOTE (butler-henderson @ 12 Feb 2018, 19:29) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Actually its a very simple loco to fit a decoder to provided you have the right decoder. Ignore Hornbys instruction to remove a weight as the M7 obviously needs as much weight as it can get in the right places and either
1.fit a suitably small enough direct fit decoder, I have two with TCS DP2X-UKs fitted; these have to fitted the wrong way round in order to get the body back on but that is not an issue as there are no lights and a quick change of CV29 corrects the loco running the wrong way, or
2.remove the 8 pin socket and all of Hornbys wiring bar the solitary wire leading from the pick ups. Hard wire a suitable decoder (I have a TCS M1 in another M7) with the motor wires soldered direct to the motor, one track lead to the tag on the chassis block and the other to the wire referred to early with heat shrink over the joint.
Compare to socket in bunker. Remove body, fit any HO size decoder of choice. The next Hornby tank engine I purchased (Thompson L1) had this very simple arrangement.

I modified the M7's wiring to put a Lenz standard decoder in the bunker. That frees space above the driven wheels for more ballast where the bulky but lightweight decoder socket was originally positioned. It's a poor layout decision on Hornby's part is all.
 

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Its not just Hornby who have sockets oddly placed, some models of other manufacturers are equally poorly positioned and yes the obvious place would be underneath a removal coal load in the bunker or tender so removing any need to dismantle the loco to any extent but that seems to a giant design leap that no one has yet managed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
OK time for part 3, so thanks for all the comments thus far,

Austerity 0-6-0t, quite a handy model this one, I had one of these once and it had sound, in fact it sounded just like a coffee grinder, as a result I got rid of it, one assumes this model has moved on and is quite decent, it looks good and if you have an industrial branch then this would be a good option, there are two versions a green one and a red one so a bit different but there is no dcc, let me know what you think.

Terrier 0-6-0t, a variety of the Terrier in the guise of the Weston Portishead and Clevedon, another useful small model but another without dcc ready ability so probably time to fix this. No idea if any good.

Peckett 0-4-0t, what looks to be a real beauty, comes as dcc ready and I would like to know how it runs as a 0-4-0 is usually a bit of a bother on insulfrog points so would like to know how it does, no real application but I like the look of this so am wondering how I can find an excuse to buy one, not cheap at around £80 but ultra highly rated so a likely 9/10 just a shame the two versions on offer are both in Peckett pale green.

RAILROAD RANGE
A3 Flying Scotsman, comes dcc fitted but is an older version decent looking model for what it is, cannot rate it as never had one of these.

A1 Tornado, I have a BR livery version and this is a nice model, almost too good for Railroad so at the price is a nice effort, comes dcc fitted so a good 7/10 in my view I do use it a fair bit on the railway.

A4 Mallard, no idea about these but have an older one but this gets no use these days as I have better ones so cannot rate.

Above Available as TTS or DCC ready

P2 Cock O' the North, what a mighty effort, I bought one and use it to pull the CMX quite a bit and also on fast fitted freights, I'd use it more it it was the later style body but for the money is a lot of loco another 7/10

Hall, Helmingham, useful model of a mixed traffic type loco, looks are OK but no idea if any good, has dcc ready ability - let me know what you think.

Black 5, The railroad black 5 is a poor thing, now dcc ready, the body sits badly on the chassis and it looks wrong dimensionally, I had one but it went and was please to see it go, I did file away at the chassis to get it to sit better but it took a lot of filing anyway best advice is to save up for the proper ones 4/10 being kind about it

B17, nothing to do with the excellent main range based on the older tender drive model, sure bound to be better than the black 5 maybe OK but cannot rate. again now dcc ready

School V class, another recycled old soldier but again dcc ready look Ok from a distance no idea if any good.

Midland rebuilt Compound, salvaged from the tender drive scrap heap, looks a poor thing, had original tender drive versions once but this does nothing for me although also dcc ready even if it runs well would not interest me at all, such requirements covered by a Bachmann which can be had at bargain prices.

D49 Hunt, another item salvaged from the tender drive scrap heap but looks quite decent, may even look at one of these as it looks as it should but cannot rate as no actual experience of one of these.

GWR County, another recycled and slightly upgraded as dcc ready looks quite well makes up the quartet of 4-4-0 locos and again I will never buy one so cannot rate.

GWR pannier half cab 2721 class, again been around a long time, nice kiddies loco and not dcc ready, no idea if any good.

LMS Jinty, another grouping era kids loco without dcc, again maybe OK but I have Bachmann jinties so that is enough.

Variety of 5 vaguely indiuutrial 0-4-0tanks locos without dcc and not really prototypical except the Caley drived Smokey Joe, enough said.

Most of the Railroad range turns up in the trainset range as does the long established and pretty rubbish J83 - yes the NBR is getting two locos in the Hornby range must be some Jocks about the Hornby home whilst Jinty comes in a SDJR format, as noted in section 1 the 72xx turmns up attached to a train set.

So that's it, a better spread than last year which is nice and progressive, they got to have product to sell and this year will help that a bit but discounting by retailers and of Bachmann rivals though will cut a bite out of the range which depends upon the express loco strategy, hope it works for them. We need to keep Hornby alive despite the apparent death wish from mission control in the past.

My view is that they need to work on getting everything dcc, improve models, do not double up on the same type e.g B17 in both ranges, improve some track elements, maintain the one stop shop effort and look to sharpen prices where they can, Hornby need a bit more variety in freight stock and a slightly better mix of locos for the hobbyist, I used to watch my 8 circuits going round and generally there were 4 Hornby and 4 Bachmann, now I note it is generally 2 Hornby and 6 Bachmann which is not good for Hornby.

PS I am available as a consultant when you need a dose of reality.

Yours

Kris.
 

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Yes, Hornby, assisted by the output of Bachmann, Heljan and Oxford Rail, with honourable mentions for Dapol and Rapido, and the A5 in prospect from 'Sonic', have just about done it. Thus the revival of this old thread. Pretty much got all the truly essential traction I need for my BR(ER) KX inner sub area operation from RTR, and Hornby promising a high grade Black 5, ought to have one of those when it arrives. 'Someone' is bound to do a B16 aren't they? So now I can 'ramble' a little.

Now, I sold on my M7 some time ago to a friend, who 'wanted one that worked': and immediately missed it, even though it's a massive stretch to find one in the KX area. Well, one has come along, non-runner (detached wire) and I am attacking it in earnest. Both the ballast weights have come out, and it's getting replacements in the form of lovely lumps of lead, but only ahead of the rear coupled axle centre. (Some of the lead is actually more like foil than lumps, but you know what I mean.) Pretty confident that by this means an increase of the weight of the model by 40% will be possible, with the centre of balance at the midpoint of the coupled wheelbase. Such a lovely looking loco, and Hornby really went for it and mightily succeeded in capturing the appearance, still as good as any model currently on offer.

Dreamtime.
Hope Hornby follow their excellent J36 with the ex-NBR D34, such a pretty mixed traffic 4-4-0.
Good 0-6-0 models always welcome, specimens of the breed from the LNWR and L&Y would be very welcome.
How about a current standard 8F anybody? Got one that really pulls now by putting the H-D body on a current Hornby mechanism, but it isn't a match in appearance for Hornby's O1 or Bachmann's WD 2-8-0's.
If Hornby are still in 'big engine' mode, there's Gresley's P1 2-8-2.going begging...
And how about the other dry side atlantics? Handsome classes from all of the GCR, NBR and NER: trying to avoid keyboard drool just thinking about these.
 

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Further extension of the 'rambling'. While setting about the M7 modifications to improve the weight distribution, I was reminded by the presence of a spare N2 body of their rather similar dimensions.

So what if Mr Gresley - as he then was - persuaded the loco committee that for branchline work he could take the N2 and develop an 0-4-4T from it? This works extremely easily, and makes a very attractive loco: with the M7's leading driver centred in the N2 body splasher, the cab steps fall neatly over the bogie pivot point so it immediately looks right. I'll take about 10mm out of the bunker end, as it wouldn't need as much coal and water capacity as the N2, and the condensing gear naturally comes off too, should bring the weight down to a liitle over 60T. By the time the first in class were fictitiously out the Stirling G1 had been withdrawn, so the new loco took the vacant designation.

I'll swap the bodies as the whimsy takes me, both of them not to be found in the KX area after all. Haha, a 'free' extra loco. (Being a drysider I have N2 bodies, originally on Mainline mechanisms that wore out on my old outdoor operation; plastic chassis being rather poor when mixed with the grit of the real world...)
 
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